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Thread: Sanders' Paradise: Cuba

  1. #41
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    And you think this is all thanks to Fidel Castro? Or did you lose track of the conversation again? Praising Castro for what he did to Cuba.
    The OP says "this is the country Sanders is praising." Sanders was praising certain successful policies that Cuba put into effect, not the country per se. That's the distinction you conservatives either can't or just don't want to recognize.

  2. #42
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    And you think this is all thanks to Fidel Castro? Or did you lose track of the conversation again? Praising Castro for what he did to Cuba.
    What do you think Cuba needs to do for you to be happy about US-Cuba relations?

  3. #43
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watermelon View Post
    What do you think Cuba needs to do for you to be happy about US-Cuba relations?
    Good relations are fine. We have those with NK right now. That doesn't mean that Cuba is a socialist paradise. Watch the video at the opening post.

  4. #44
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    The misplaced apostrophe in this thread title really bothers me. Sorry.

    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Good relations are fine. We have those with NK right now. That doesn't mean that Cuba is a socialist paradise. Watch the video at the opening post.
    Yeah, except no one, including Sanders, has praised Cuba as a socialist paradise. He praised their healthcare system. That's a distinction that you hardliners don't seem capable of understanding.

    And what! We have good relations with N. Korea?

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Yeah, except no one, including Sanders, has praised Cuba as a socialist paradise. He praised their healthcare system. That's a distinction that you hardliners don't seem capable of understanding.

    And what! We have good relations with N. Korea?
    Yes Sanders has been praising Cuba. ("Bread lines are a good thing!") and praising Castro. For 40 years now.

    And yes, we have much better relations with NK now than under Obama.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    The misplaced apostrophe in this thread title really bothers me. Sorry.

    I have no idea what you are whining about.

  8. #48
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Yeah, except no one, including Sanders, has praised Cuba as a socialist paradise. He praised their healthcare system. That's a distinction that you hardliners don't seem capable of understanding.
    I thought it was their literacy rate that he praised.

    Of course, as as the explained a few years ago in the hardly right-wing Atlantic, literacy was never sought by the Cuban regime just for the sake of literacy, but as the "key to the revolution taking hold and creating a literate population loyal to the government."

    And let's not forget that the fabulous education system taught that everyone's highest loyalty is to the State -- the Communist Party. Children were indoctrinated in work camps and kept separate from their families and taught to denounce their own parents to authorities for any and all counter-revolutionary tendencies. If the parents ever said something to their children that conflicted with communist ideology, they usually found themselves jailed for three years under the Code for Children, Youth and Family.

    And btw, the massive success Castro's programs had is largely an overblown myth. According to the late historian Hugh Thomas, who's account of Spainís civil war has been described as "the bible of the Spanish left" and later advised the British government during the Falklands War due to his widely regarded expertise on Latin America, back in 1958 the literacy rate in Cuba was already at 80%.

    And today their literacy rate is pretty much the same as that found in Argentina, Chile and Costa Rica.

    Moreover, without free speech and a free press, a high literacy rate is a cruel joke.
    Last edited by rogue06; 04-06-2020 at 03:31 PM.

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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    I thought it was their literacy rate that he praised.

    Of course, as as the explained a few years ago in the hardly right-wing Atlantic, literacy was never sought by the Cuban regime just for the sake of literacy, but as the "key to the revolution taking hold and creating a literate population loyal to the government."

    And let's not forget that the fabulous education system taught that everyone's highest loyalty is to the State -- the Communist Party. Children were indoctrinated in work camps and kept separate from their families and taught to denounce their own parents to authorities for any and all counter-revolutionary tendencies. If the parents ever said something to their children that conflicted with communist ideology, they usually found themselves jailed for three years under the Code for Children, Youth and Family.

    And btw, the massive success Castro's programs had is largely an overblown myth. According to the late historian Hugh Thomas, who's account of Spainís civil war has been described as "the bible of the Spanish left" and later advised the British government during the Falklands War due to his widely regarded expertise on Latin America, back in 1958 the literacy rate in Cuba was already at 80%.

    And today their literacy rate is pretty much the same as that found in Argentina, Chile and Costa Rica.

    Moreover, without free speech and a free press, a high literacy rate is a cruel joke.
    Irrelevant rant. Sanders has always condemned authoritarianism, but to be against authoritarianism doesn't mean that you can't acknowledge when they do something right or good. You guys aren't stupid, you can understand that, but it would be out of character for you to acknowledge it.

  10. #50
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Irrelevant rant. Sanders has always condemned authoritarianism, but to be against authoritarianism doesn't mean that you can't acknowledge when they do something right or good. You guys aren't stupid, you can understand that, but it would be out of character for you to acknowledge it.
    It looks like Sanders has in recent years used Cuba's literacy rate[1] as an excuse for having praised Castro and communism.

    A video of him speaking at the University of Vermont back in 1986 shows him excitedly talking about the Cuban revolution and why he was so happy when it took place. And why was that? Because "it just seemed right and appropriate that poor people were rising up against rather ugly rich people." Sanders also said he was sickened (almost had to "puke") when JFK spoke out against communism and pushed his political opponent at the time, Richard Nixon, to be tougher on Cuba.

    So Sanders was already a giddy fanboi of Castro and has only later used the improvement in literacy rates there (which was also taking place throughout Latin America) as an excuse.

    And while improving literacy is a laudable achievement it hardly excuses over half a century of totalitarian rule or Sanders effluent exhortations and making excuses for Castro (or the Sandinista government) long after their totalitarianistic ways were widely understood.





    1. Given that Cuba already had a very high rate of literacy prior to Castro seizing control, and that it is really no better than that seen in several other countries in Latin America (and only marginally better than that in several others such as Colombia, Ecuador, Panama and Paraguay) and that literacy rates in Latin America and the Caribbean amounting 94% (a good deal higher than the world average) giving Castro all the credit is a stretch

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

  11. Amen Sparko amen'd this post.

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