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Thread: A tale of two countries:

  1. #11
    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
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    Translation:
    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Pope to Catholics: For Lent, give up trolling

    Be good, simplicio.
    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

  2. #12
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Don't you understand Simplicio, you're not allowed to think carefully. You've got to think in unnuanced black and white terms.

    Cuba bad.

    Therefore everything about it is bad, always and forever. It's wrong to admit nuance, as it hurts the brains of conservatives to think that hard. It's wrong to acknowledge that Cuba ever did anything good. They're just completely bad and so is their little dog too.
    Last edited by Starlight; 02-27-2020 at 10:38 PM.

  3. #13
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I don't endorse any of Hitler's programs
    Hmmm. And Mussolini made the trains run on time!

    You are either a moron or trolling again.
    You are being disingenuous.

  4. #14
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    Calling someone out as a moron is trolling.
    Calling someone a troll who called some out as a moron is trolling.

  5. #15
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Calling someone a troll who called some out as a moron is trolling.
    No need to check your own head space Sparko. To actually post ideas of a conservative denomination like the SBC is considered to triggering for tweb conservatives and so trolling.

    But what prompted you to use the term moron? The comparison of the responses of Tweb Christians to the remarks of Trump on finer people and the remarks of Sanders on Cuba. It almost like you have strong principles against examining the arguments of Christians.

    Snowflake Christianity is hardly what the Lord has in mind.

  6. #16
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Hmmm. And Mussolini made the trains run on time!



    You are being disingenuous.
    The fact that trains ran on time doesn't excuse Mussolini from being a mass murdering fascist.

    The fact that Cuba had a literacy program that Castro used to indoctrinate the people including children, while destroying any written material and books that were not approved by his regime is NOT a good thing. The fact that he was teaching people to read his propaganda while shooting others in the back of the head for being subversive is not a good thing.

    I dare you to go around praising Mussolini's train service and Hitler's healthcare system and see if people don't see you rightly as a Nazi sympathizing fascist.

    I posted that Babylon Bee story about how slavery wasn't all bad because they got free housing and food. It was supposed to point out how ridiculous such a thing would be, but you actually take it as a something correct and good. It wasn't irony to you.

    That's why I said you are either a moron or trolling.

    Bernie has been praising Cuba and Castro for 40/50 years. When he was called out on it, he came up with this lame 'but Castro had this great literacy program' as a deflection to draw attention away from the fact that he has been cheering on communists and dictators for over 40 years.

    Don't be fooled. Sanders is only playing at "democratic socialism" because he knows no one is ready for his true beliefs, communism.


    Bernie Sanders campaigned for the Socialist Workers Party in the 1980 and 1984 presidential campaigns and was investigated by the FBI for his ties to the Marxist group.

    Sanders has always played down the extent of his involvement with the party, which included radicals who praised the Soviet Union and Cuban communists, and has denied ever being a member. Asked in 1988 about his role as an SWP elector in 1980, he said: "I was asked to put my name on the ballot and I did, thatís true." In fact, his ties to the party are deep and enduring.

    The 2020 Democratic presidential primary candidate and United States senator from Vermont, now 77, often scoffs at comparisons between his brand of self-described "democratic socialism" and communism. In recent years, he has said he is merely interested in having the United States look more like Sweden, a social democracy with a broad welfare state but a well-functioning private sector.

    But his personal files from his time as mayor of Burlington, from 1981 to 1989, archived at the University of Vermont, show that he supported and campaigned for the communist SWP and maintained a close relationship with its senior members. While Democrats campaigned for President Jimmy Carter in 1980 and Walter Mondale in 1984, Sanders spent the Reagan era supporting fringe Marxists with no chance of reaching the White House.

    In 1980, Sanders "proudly endorsed and supported" Andrew Pulley, the party's presidential candidate, who once said that American soldiers should "take up their guns and shoot their officers." Sanders was one of three electors for Pulley on the Vermont ballot, stating in a press release: "I fully support the SWP's continued defense of the Cuban revolution."

    Four years later, he backed and campaigned for the SWP presidential nominee Mel Mason, a former Black Panther, saying it was important for there to be "fundamental alternatives to capitalist ideology." During the campaign, Mason praised the Russian and Chinese revolutions and said: "The greatest example of a socialist government is Cuba, and Nicaragua is right behind, but it's still developing."

    During Pulley's White House run in 1980, he called for the abolition of the U.S. military and the nationalization of "virtually all private industry," as well as the abolition of the military budget and the establishment of "official ... 'solidarity' with the revolutionary regimes in Iran, Nicaragua, Grenada and Cuba," according to a New York Times report at the time.

    During that same campaign, Pulley hailed the Cuban revolution as a model for the U.S. and claimed that "racism [had] been abolished" on the island. His running mate, Matilde Zimmermann, described the contention that Cubans lived under a dictatorship as American "propaganda."

    "Working people here could learn a lot from the Cuban example," Zimmermann said .

    In 1979, members of SWP's leadership circulated a document that called for "the destruction of the bourgeois state apparatus," arguing such an act "is a necessary prerequisite for the conquest of state power by the working class."

    Archives of the SWP's official paper, the Militant, demonstrate a devotion to what its writers believe was the "true" purpose of the Russian Revolution, before it was supposedly corrupted by Josef Stalin.
    ...
    "They were certainly a revolutionary group ," said Paul Kengor, a professor at Grove City College and an expert on 20th century communism. "One of the SWP's fans was Lee Harvey Oswald, who not only wanted to overthrow our government but actually assassinated our president, John F. Kennedy."

    A flier in Sanders' archives shows that he was a featured speaker at the 1982 SWP "Campaign Kick-Off Rally" in Boston for the party's candidates for governor, lieutenant governor, and Congress.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...-in-reagan-era


    And in case you are wondering, the SWP are actually full blown communists not socialist [the same way the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was communist] and always have been. Read on in the article.

  7. #17
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Don't you understand Simplicio, you're not allowed to think carefully. You've got to think in unnuanced black and white terms.

    Cuba bad.

    Therefore everything about it is bad, always and forever. It's wrong to admit nuance, as it hurts the brains of conservatives to think that hard. It's wrong to acknowledge that Cuba ever did anything good. They're just completely bad and so is their little dog too.
    OK OK, I think I find find at least one good thing to say about Cuba. At least Castro didn't murder all of Cuba's citizens.

    Not murdering people is good, right?

  8. #18
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    The fact that trains ran on time doesn't excuse Mussolini from being a mass murdering fascist.

    The fact that Cuba had a literacy program that Castro used to indoctrinate the people including children, while destroying any written material and books that were not approved by his regime is NOT a good thing. The fact that he was teaching people to read his propaganda while shooting others in the back of the head for being subversive is not a good thing.

    I dare you to go around praising Mussolini's train service and Hitler's healthcare system and see if people don't see you rightly as a Nazi sympathizing fascist.

    I posted that Babylon Bee story about how slavery wasn't all bad because they got free housing and food. It was supposed to point out how ridiculous such a thing would be, but you actually take it as a something correct and good. It wasn't irony to you.

    That's why I said you are either a moron or trolling.

    Bernie has been praising Cuba and Castro for 40/50 years. When he was called out on it, he came up with this lame 'but Castro had this great literacy program' as a deflection to draw attention away from the fact that he has been cheering on communists and dictators for over 40 years.

    Don't be fooled. Sanders is only playing at "democratic socialism" because he knows no one is ready for his true beliefs, communism.


    Bernie Sanders campaigned for the Socialist Workers Party in the 1980 and 1984 presidential campaigns and was investigated by the FBI for his ties to the Marxist group.

    Sanders has always played down the extent of his involvement with the party, which included radicals who praised the Soviet Union and Cuban communists, and has denied ever being a member. Asked in 1988 about his role as an SWP elector in 1980, he said: "I was asked to put my name on the ballot and I did, thatís true." In fact, his ties to the party are deep and enduring.

    The 2020 Democratic presidential primary candidate and United States senator from Vermont, now 77, often scoffs at comparisons between his brand of self-described "democratic socialism" and communism. In recent years, he has said he is merely interested in having the United States look more like Sweden, a social democracy with a broad welfare state but a well-functioning private sector.

    But his personal files from his time as mayor of Burlington, from 1981 to 1989, archived at the University of Vermont, show that he supported and campaigned for the communist SWP and maintained a close relationship with its senior members. While Democrats campaigned for President Jimmy Carter in 1980 and Walter Mondale in 1984, Sanders spent the Reagan era supporting fringe Marxists with no chance of reaching the White House.

    In 1980, Sanders "proudly endorsed and supported" Andrew Pulley, the party's presidential candidate, who once said that American soldiers should "take up their guns and shoot their officers." Sanders was one of three electors for Pulley on the Vermont ballot, stating in a press release: "I fully support the SWP's continued defense of the Cuban revolution."

    Four years later, he backed and campaigned for the SWP presidential nominee Mel Mason, a former Black Panther, saying it was important for there to be "fundamental alternatives to capitalist ideology." During the campaign, Mason praised the Russian and Chinese revolutions and said: "The greatest example of a socialist government is Cuba, and Nicaragua is right behind, but it's still developing."

    During Pulley's White House run in 1980, he called for the abolition of the U.S. military and the nationalization of "virtually all private industry," as well as the abolition of the military budget and the establishment of "official ... 'solidarity' with the revolutionary regimes in Iran, Nicaragua, Grenada and Cuba," according to a New York Times report at the time.

    During that same campaign, Pulley hailed the Cuban revolution as a model for the U.S. and claimed that "racism [had] been abolished" on the island. His running mate, Matilde Zimmermann, described the contention that Cubans lived under a dictatorship as American "propaganda."

    "Working people here could learn a lot from the Cuban example," Zimmermann said .

    In 1979, members of SWP's leadership circulated a document that called for "the destruction of the bourgeois state apparatus," arguing such an act "is a necessary prerequisite for the conquest of state power by the working class."

    Archives of the SWP's official paper, the Militant, demonstrate a devotion to what its writers believe was the "true" purpose of the Russian Revolution, before it was supposedly corrupted by Josef Stalin.
    ...
    "They were certainly a revolutionary group ," said Paul Kengor, a professor at Grove City College and an expert on 20th century communism. "One of the SWP's fans was Lee Harvey Oswald, who not only wanted to overthrow our government but actually assassinated our president, John F. Kennedy."

    A flier in Sanders' archives shows that he was a featured speaker at the 1982 SWP "Campaign Kick-Off Rally" in Boston for the party's candidates for governor, lieutenant governor, and Congress.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...-in-reagan-era


    And in case you are wondering, the SWP are actually full blown communists not socialist [the same way the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was communist] and always have been. Read on in the article.
    And what you fail to recognize is that the Babylon Bee article is also lampooning Christians, who managed to find a silver lining in the racism of US chattel slavery.

    "Mussolini's trains" has entered the language with many layers of irony built into it. Might want to check it out.

    The fact is that Cuba instituted a successful program on literacy at the same time significant changes were being made in the US with its segregation academies. And yes they did use it later for evil, a point which Sanders recognizes, judging from his comments. The literacy program is not a mere footnote, it was a basis for establishing support of the citizenry of Cuba, providing legitimacy, such as it was, for the new regime. And it was used for propaganda purposes across the world by the communists, especially in Africa.

    And from the post, it seems that you think I am a Bernie supporter, which is real irony from the poster who noted that Hitler liked puppies. Yes, it pains me to no end to concede a point to Sanders. But is that the state of discussion on civil matters whether among Christians, between believers and not believers, or conservatives and liberals?

  9. #19
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimbulb View Post
    Don't you understand Simplicio, you're not allowed to think carefully. You've got to think in unnuanced black and white terms.

    Cuba bad.

    Therefore everything about it is bad, always and forever. It's wrong to admit nuance, as it hurts the brains of conservatives to think that hard. It's wrong to acknowledge that Cuba ever did anything good. They're just completely bad and so is their little dog too.
    Right. Who cares if Hitler's youth programs were really just indoctrination camps to teach bigotry and hatred to impressionable kids? At least he got them off the street, right?

    Nuance.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  10. Amen Sparko amen'd this post.
  11. #20
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    OK OK, I think I find find at least one good thing to say about Cuba. At least Castro didn't murder all of Cuba's citizens.

    Not murdering people is good, right?
    Juvenal was not referring to "not murdering people". The context of the discussion was on literacy, and the Cuban literacy initiative. While your example was clever it was also disingenuous.

    The context of the discussion, and Bernie's comments, is about literacy.

    Is teaching people to read wrong?

    is achieving near universal literacy in under a year a social evil?

    Cuba had about a 25% rate of illiteracy, but many counties in the US had similar rates of illiteracy (but not whites). When Brown v Board came down from on high, the responses included shutting down public schools, continuing to underfund education of black Americans, establishing excellent segregation academies for white students (it did take a few years for the white academies to get up to speed), and a campaign of massive resistance.

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