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Thread: To Vote or Not To Vote, That is the Question

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    tWebber Thoughtful Monk's Avatar
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    To Vote or Not To Vote, That is the Question

    I was listening to Christian radio and whatever ministry was on was talking about voting and strongly said as a Christian I have to vote. Since this will be a hot topic for the rest of year, I thought it worth sharing my thoughts.

    Yes, the Bible says to rending unto Caesar's what is Caesar's which in context was to pay taxes to the government. However unlike taxes, there is NO law requiring me to vote. So is there a Bible passage that would say I have to vote?

    Then I have to consider the candidates for office. In the case of POTUS, it sure looks like a no win decision. Do I vote for President Trump who for the most part I like his policies but I can't argue against his behavior is not Christian and my support for him may bring shame on the name of Christ? Do I vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is who's behavior is definitely more Christian but whose policies, for example Abortion on Demand, are definitely not Christian, at least to me? I also have to consider that my state Democratic governor pretty much came out and said I shouldn't be a part of his state because of my pro-life positions. It makes me suspect about voting for the Democratic candidate as I could be found supporting those opposed to God.

    I didn't vote on the Presidential line in 2016 because I came to conclusion that none of the candidates were qualified for the office. I'm leaning towards the same decision in 2020 for the same reason.

    Admittedly where I live may be influencing this. Around here, the person with (D) after their name is the winner. Without competitive votes, it's hard to get enthusiastic about voting. So not voting almost becomes a protest against all political parties.

    I know voting's important so I'm interested in hearing what you have to say.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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    tWebber Faber's Avatar
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    Protest vote. I wrote in Mike Pence because I knew my vote would be wasted anywy, being in New Jersey. If it were close, I would have held my breath and voted for Trump. Personally, I have no respect for the man, but his policies are much better than Hillary Rodham's.

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    I was listening to Christian radio and whatever ministry was on was talking about voting and strongly said as a Christian I have to vote. Since this will be a hot topic for the rest of year, I thought it worth sharing my thoughts.

    Yes, the Bible says to rending unto Caesar's what is Caesar's which in context was to pay taxes to the government. However unlike taxes, there is NO law requiring me to vote. So is there a Bible passage that would say I have to vote?

    Then I have to consider the candidates for office. In the case of POTUS, it sure looks like a no win decision. Do I vote for President Trump who for the most part I like his policies but I can't argue against his behavior is not Christian and my support for him may bring shame on the name of Christ? Do I vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is who's behavior is definitely more Christian but whose policies, for example Abortion on Demand, are definitely not Christian, at least to me? I also have to consider that my state Democratic governor pretty much came out and said I shouldn't be a part of his state because of my pro-life positions. It makes me suspect about voting for the Democratic candidate as I could be found supporting those opposed to God.

    I didn't vote on the Presidential line in 2016 because I came to conclusion that none of the candidates were qualified for the office. I'm leaning towards the same decision in 2020 for the same reason.

    Admittedly where I live may be influencing this. Around here, the person with (D) after their name is the winner. Without competitive votes, it's hard to get enthusiastic about voting. So not voting almost becomes a protest against all political parties.

    I know voting's important so I'm interested in hearing what you have to say.
    As citizens of the USA we have an obligation to vote. Those that do not vote are victims of their own ignorance.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    Professor Catholicity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    I was listening to Christian radio and whatever ministry was on was talking about voting and strongly said as a Christian I have to vote. Since this will be a hot topic for the rest of year, I thought it worth sharing my thoughts.

    Yes, the Bible says to rending unto Caesar's what is Caesar's which in context was to pay taxes to the government. However unlike taxes, there is NO law requiring me to vote. So is there a Bible passage that would say I have to vote?

    Then I have to consider the candidates for office. In the case of POTUS, it sure looks like a no win decision. Do I vote for President Trump who for the most part I like his policies but I can't argue against his behavior is not Christian and my support for him may bring shame on the name of Christ? Do I vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is who's behavior is definitely more Christian but whose policies, for example Abortion on Demand, are definitely not Christian, at least to me? I also have to consider that my state Democratic governor pretty much came out and said I shouldn't be a part of his state because of my pro-life positions. It makes me suspect about voting for the Democratic candidate as I could be found supporting those opposed to God.

    I didn't vote on the Presidential line in 2016 because I came to conclusion that none of the candidates were qualified for the office. I'm leaning towards the same decision in 2020 for the same reason.

    Admittedly where I live may be influencing this. Around here, the person with (D) after their name is the winner. Without competitive votes, it's hard to get enthusiastic about voting. So not voting almost becomes a protest against all political parties.

    I know voting's important so I'm interested in hearing what you have to say.
    That's a good question. You know, not enough people turned out to vote in 2016 assuming the shoe in candidate. More people CAN and does sway an election. Obama likely wouldn't have won in 2008 if so many young people had not turned out to vote. I do feel like everyone's vote does count especially in local elections. However if your conscience is telling you not to vote that's ok. Also I needed to add, your salvation doesn't rest on how you vote or who you vote for or whether or not you vote. Your salvation is in Christ.
    A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
    George Bernard Shaw

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    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    I was listening to Christian radio and whatever ministry was on was talking about voting and strongly said as a Christian I have to vote. Since this will be a hot topic for the rest of year, I thought it worth sharing my thoughts.
    No, you don't have a Christian duty to vote. Your duty is to follow your conscience. Scripture was entirely written within the contexts of monarchies and theocracies, so it does not provide much guidance for participation in "bottom-up" forms of government, including whether or not to vote.

    As a Christian, your primary loyalty should be to the Kingdom of Heaven, not any nation of earth. If your loyalty to the Kingdom leads you to abstain from participation in anything related to the governing of any nation of earth, so be it.


    Yes, the Bible says to rending unto Caesar's what is Caesar's which in context was to pay taxes to the government. However unlike taxes, there is NO law requiring me to vote. So is there a Bible passage that would say I have to vote?
    Of course not. Scripture does not show much interaction between persons and government, and in the NT, what interaction it does show is often adversarial.

    Then I have to consider the candidates for office. In the case of POTUS, it sure looks like a no win decision. Do I vote for President Trump who for the most part I like his policies but I can't argue against his behavior is not Christian and my support for him may bring shame on the name of Christ?
    You must follow your own conscience in this regard. For my part, I don't worry much about what might possibly "bring shame on the name of Christ," or "be a 'bad witness,'" or anything along those lines. No matter what we do, some will twist it to use as a weapon against Christianity. Vote for someone like Mike Pence? You're not a good, loving Christian like Pete Buttgiggy. Oppose abortion? You hate women, and can't possibly be a "good" Christian. Favor a secure border? You don't welcome the oppressed, so you're not a good, loving Christian.

    IMO, Bad Orange Man's policies are returning justice to the courts; that's a good thing that Christians should welcome. They are challenging rather than placating rogue nations; that's a good thing. They are improving employment and wages for the lower income groups, and decreasing the need for food stamps and welfare; that's a good thing that Christians should welcome.

    For me, the choice is easy -- much more so than it was in 2016.

    Do I vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is who's behavior is definitely more Christian but whose policies, for example Abortion on Demand, are definitely not Christian, at least to me? I also have to consider that my state Democratic governor pretty much came out and said I shouldn't be a part of his state because of my pro-life positions. It makes me suspect about voting for the Democratic candidate as I could be found supporting those opposed to God.
    There is virtually no chance I could ever vote for a Democrat. The party as a whole is de jure Pro-Abortion and de facto anti-liberty, anti-semitic, and more.

    There is little chance I could vote for a libertarian, as their party is offiically Pro-Choice (even if they obfuscate on the matter); however, in that party it is *somewhat* more common for specific candidates to break from the "party line" than it is in the D party.

    Even the GOP is *barely* Pro-Life, given their willing if not eager embrace of the "rape and incest" disclaimers. (And I say this as someone who *does* unhesitatingly accept the "life of the mother" exclusion, which -- to my astonishment -- some here decry.)
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    I was listening to Christian radio and whatever ministry was on was talking about voting and strongly said as a Christian I have to vote. Since this will be a hot topic for the rest of year, I thought it worth sharing my thoughts.

    Yes, the Bible says to rending unto Caesar's what is Caesar's which in context was to pay taxes to the government. However unlike taxes, there is NO law requiring me to vote. So is there a Bible passage that would say I have to vote?

    Then I have to consider the candidates for office. In the case of POTUS, it sure looks like a no win decision. Do I vote for President Trump who for the most part I like his policies but I can't argue against his behavior is not Christian and my support for him may bring shame on the name of Christ? Do I vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is who's behavior is definitely more Christian but whose policies, for example Abortion on Demand, are definitely not Christian, at least to me? I also have to consider that my state Democratic governor pretty much came out and said I shouldn't be a part of his state because of my pro-life positions. It makes me suspect about voting for the Democratic candidate as I could be found supporting those opposed to God.

    I didn't vote on the Presidential line in 2016 because I came to conclusion that none of the candidates were qualified for the office. I'm leaning towards the same decision in 2020 for the same reason.

    Admittedly where I live may be influencing this. Around here, the person with (D) after their name is the winner. Without competitive votes, it's hard to get enthusiastic about voting. So not voting almost becomes a protest against all political parties.

    I know voting's important so I'm interested in hearing what you have to say.
    As a citizen of the US you should vote for who you think will make the best President, and let God judge what is in a person's heart because He is the judge, not you.

  7. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    The notion that it is sinful not to vote sounds like the words of somebody with a specific political agenda, and who is willing to use fear to exploit Christ's sheep to that end. This notion is simply not in the Bible; it is a matter of Christian liberty on which Christians can legitimately disagree. Some Christians believe that to vote is to get involved in civilian affairs (2 Timothy 2:4) or to involve themselves as citizens of one country when their true citizenship is heaven. Even though I don't agree with their interpretation, far be it for me to accuse them of sinning for following their conscience.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  9. Amen Timothy, Thoughtful Monk, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

    I know voting's important so I'm interested in hearing what you have to say.
    Do you think that there is a moral duty to vote?
    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    The notion that it is sinful not to vote sounds like the words of somebody with a specific political agenda, and who is willing to use fear to exploit Christ's sheep to that end. This notion is simply not in the Bible; it is a matter of Christian liberty on which Christians can legitimately disagree. Some Christians believe that to vote is to get involved in civilian affairs (2 Timothy 2:4) or to involve themselves as citizens of one country when their true citizenship is heaven. Even though I don't agree with their interpretation, far be it for me to accuse them of sinning for following their conscience.
    Is it sinful to vote for the wrong candidate?

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    Then I have to consider the candidates for office. In the case of POTUS, it sure looks like a no win decision. Do I vote for President Trump who for the most part I like his policies but I can't argue against his behavior is not Christian and my support for him may bring shame on the name of Christ? Do I vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is who's behavior is definitely more Christian but whose policies, for example Abortion on Demand, are definitely not Christian, at least to me? I also have to consider that my state Democratic governor pretty much came out and said I shouldn't be a part of his state because of my pro-life positions. It makes me suspect about voting for the Democratic candidate as I could be found supporting those opposed to God.

    I didn't vote on the Presidential line in 2016 because I came to conclusion that none of the candidates were qualified for the office. I'm leaning towards the same decision in 2020 for the same reason.
    Looking into it, it seems like the options on the ballot for your state will be (besides the Democrat and Republican), whoever the Libertarian Party and Green Party nominate, and possibly whoever the Constitution Party nominates (the CP was on the New York ballot in 2012 but not 2016, so I'm not sure how it'll work out in 2020). I'm not sure who will be available as a write-in (the Constitution Party's candidate should be if they don't get access), but I think Brian Carroll (American Solidarity Party) will be.

    Not sure if that helps at all... but figured I might as well toss that out.
    Last edited by Terraceth; 03-03-2020 at 03:37 PM.

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