On socialized medicine

[simplicio]

One of the primary reasons is due to our legal system. For one example, John Edwards (the disgraced former Senator who was John Kerry's running mate in 2004) became famous for winning huge lawsuits by second guessing the decisions of doctors. If complications arose during childbirth he sued them for not having performed a Caesarean instead. This innovative tactic was quickly picked up by other lawyers which resulted in a increase in Caesareans nationwide as doctors sought to avoid being sued. Edwards was a master of making emotion-based pleas essentially arguing that someone got hurt so someone needed to pay for it and since doctors and insurance companies have deep pockets they can afford to pay even if they didn't do anything wrong.

There have been several attempts at tort reform but all have failed in that the Trial Lawyers Association's lobbies are very powerful (they've had a virtual stranglehold on the Democrats and have been gaining influence among Republicans every year).

Americans demand such laws, we are not just victims of politicians in this. Who do you think files those lawsuits? Suing hospitals is a growing area for lawyers to get huge settlements, if not quick but lesser payoffs. The newest segment is the nursing home or long term care. Employees can be and are sued, which is driving many out, especially at the low end where wages are close to minimum, health aids or certified nursing assistants.

[Mountain Man]

"Look to England and Canada" as examples to learn from: "The United States Spends More on Healthcare per Person than Other Wealthy Countries".

https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2019/07/ho...ther-countries

Again with the questionable graphs and statistics.

Since there is no worldwide standard for medical record keeping, it's very hard to do a straight comparison between the healthcare systems of two countries (I mentioned the infant mortality disparity in a previous post). A lot of times, too, it's based on self-reporting, and I've noticed that countries with government managed and subsidized healthcare tend to paint the rosiest picture possible using carefully selected data (don't want the citizens thinking they're not getting a good deal on their "free" healthcare) while the US, in contrast, having a largely private health system, recognizes that being accurate and honest is necessary for improvement. Furthermore, the US population being many times that of small European countries and with a much more diverse socioeconomic population, makes any direct comparisons to other countries difficult if not wholly meaningless. Perhaps if someone took a cross-section of the US population that is similar in size and social factors to a European country then a more direct comparison could be made, but perhaps it's not as simple as that.

[mossrose]

Canada's healthcare sucks. If you don't mind waiting for months or years for specialist visits or some surgeries, then get yourself some socialized healthcare.

[lilpixieofterror]

I think Simp is referring to military base/post medical centers for Active Duty folks, not veterans. I've been stationed at 10 military installations over my USAF career, and have had to go to the base hospital in all but 1 for something ranging from required vaccinations to dental work. Every single one was terrible. Heck, the hospital at Andrews is where actually passed out from the phlebotomist trying to draw blood from me. 6 failed sticks in my arms, and to the floor I went. Offutt AFB's dental clinic was the best of them, but I still had 2 fillings from there fall out 3-4 years later. Anecdotal, true, but my experience has not been positive with military hospitals.

[Mountain Man]

Canada's healthcare sucks. If you don't mind waiting for months or years for specialist visits or some surgeries, then get yourself some socialized healthcare.

Your perspective is not unique. So many organizations rank countries like England and Canada ahead of the US in terms of healthcare, but whenever you hear anecdotes from common citizens, they invariably hate it and have nothing but nightmare stories to tell. Meanwhile, last year, I received world class treatment for atrial stenosis within weeks of my diagnosis. I was immediately scheduled for testing and could have had surgery even quicker but chose to stay with my surgeon who has an excellent reputation -- he's the kind of surgeon that other surgeons would want if they needed an operation. And my employer provided health insurance covered every cent of the $80,000 bill. I don't know where I would be today if I had to depend on government rationed healthcare.

[mossrose]

Your perspective is not unique. So many organizations rank countries like England and Canada ahead of the US in terms of healthcare, but whenever you hear anecdotes from common citizens, they invariably hate it and have nothing but nightmare stories to tell. Meanwhile, last year, I received world class treatment for atrial stenosis within weeks of my diagnosis. I was immediately scheduled for testing and could have had surgery even quicker but chose to stay with my surgeon who has an excellent reputation -- he's the kind of surgeon that other surgeons would want if they needed an operation. And my employer provided health insurance covered every cent of the $80,000 bill. I don't know where I would be today if I had to depend on government rationed healthcare.

And, the government doesn't pay for certain needs, such as vision, unless you are under 18 or over 65, and dental and prescriptions. You have to still buy private insurance to cover those things, and there is always an out of pocket expense on top of what you pay for the private insurance.

But have no fear! Abortions and gender reassignment are fully paid for by the taxpayer!

[Sparko]

Your perspective is not unique. So many organizations rank countries like England and Canada ahead of the US in terms of healthcare, but whenever you hear anecdotes from common citizens, they invariably hate it and have nothing but nightmare stories to tell. Meanwhile, last year, I received world class treatment for atrial stenosis within weeks of my diagnosis. I was immediately scheduled for testing and could have had surgery even quicker but chose to stay with my surgeon who has an excellent reputation -- he's the kind of surgeon that other surgeons would want if they needed an operation. And my employer provided health insurance covered every cent of the $80,000 bill. I don't know where I would be today if I had to depend on government rationed healthcare.

As many here know, a few months back I went in for a yearly check up and stress test (didn't even have to wait for that. Scheduled it a week before the test) - and they found something that suggested I might have a blockage. They scheduled me a heart catheterization and I went in a week later. There they found a blood clot and sent me directly to the nearest major hospital where they kept me in the hospital and did the bypass surgery two days later (they had to wait for some blood thinner I was on to leave my body, or they would have done it the same day). Complications ensued and they couldn't take me off the ventilator, so I was trached and had to spend a month in the hospital. I recuperated, and just now finished 12 weeks of cardiac rehab. Excellent care. Fast care. and I am sure it was very expensive. But because of my insurance, it cost me NOTHING out of pocket, other than my monthly premiums. I had already met my deductible for the year.

If I were in Canada, I would probably still be waiting on the stress test, or be dead because of the clot.

[mossrose]

As many here know, a few months back I went in for a yearly check up and stress test (didn't even have to wait for that. Scheduled it a week before the test) - and they found something that suggested I might have a blockage. They scheduled me a heart catheterization and I went in a week later. There they found a blood clot and sent me directly to the nearest major hospital where they kept me in the hospital and did the bypass surgery two days later (they had to wait for some blood thinner I was on to leave my body, or they would have done it the same day). Complications ensued and they couldn't take me off the ventilator, so I was trached and had to spend a month in the hospital. I recuperated, and just now finished 12 weeks of cardiac rehab. Excellent care. Fast care. and I am sure it was very expensive. But because of my insurance, it cost me NOTHING out of pocket, other than my monthly premiums. I had already met my deductible for the year.

If I were in Canada, I would probably still be waiting on the stress test, or be dead because of the clot.

In 2013 my husband was having some issues. Our doctor pulled strings and got him in to see a cardiologist in about a week. The cardiologist booked him for an angiogram, but the wait list was about 4 months long. I put him on a cancellation list and he got a call about 7 weeks after he saw the cardiologist.

They did the angiogram, and he was told he needed a triple bypass. The cardiologist said that if he sent Mr. mossy home he would be waiting 3 months for surgery and he would die before then. So he stayed in that hospital for 10 days before they had a surgical date for him, and he was transferred to another hospital for surgery, where he ended up having a quadruple bypass. The cardiologist said that his worst blockage was at a junction of 3 vessels they call the widowmaker.

My sister had to have a knee replacement last year. She saw the surgeon in January and he told her they were booking surgeries in November. She was able to get a cancellation and went in the beginning of September. Far too long a wait, and not uncommon, for that type of surgery.

I heard on the local news just the other day that cancer patients are getting worse and some are dying because wait times for CT and MRI scans are horrendous.

It seems that once you get in the system, like my husband, thanks to our family doctor and the cardiologist, things move marginally faster. But forget it if somebody doesn't think you are urgently in need of something.

Granted, we paid nothing out of pocket for his surgery and hospital stay and home care gor a week after he was released or cardio rehab. But we pay high taxes.

[Mountain Man]

As many here know, a few months back I went in for a yearly check up and stress test (didn't even have to wait for that. Scheduled it a week before the test) - and they found something that suggested I might have a blockage. They scheduled me a heart catheterization and I went in a week later. There they found a blood clot and sent me directly to the nearest major hospital where they kept me in the hospital and did the bypass surgery two days later (they had to wait for some blood thinner I was on to leave my body, or they would have done it the same day). Complications ensued and they couldn't take me off the ventilator, so I was trached and had to spend a month in the hospital. I recuperated, and just now finished 12 weeks of cardiac rehab. Excellent care. Fast care. and I am sure it was very expensive. But because of my insurance, it cost me NOTHING out of pocket, other than my monthly premiums. I had already met my deductible for the year.

If I were in Canada, I would probably still be waiting on the stress test, or be dead because of the clot.

Sounds like you and I went through a similar ordeal -- except for the complications and being on a ventilator. I needed a valve replacement (state of the art tissue valve), a single bypass, and a two-inch section of my ascending aorta was replaced with carbon fiber mesh. I was in surgery for 5-hours, woke up feeling like I had been run over by a truck, but I quickly recuperated, was home by the end of the week, and was well enough to return to work within a month. 9-months later, I'm considered fully recovered, and although the nerves and muscles in my chest are still healing, there are no restrictions on what I'm allowed to do. Despite it being major surgery that left a 10-inch scar on my chest, all things considered, I can honestly say it wasn't a bad experience.

[Sparko]

In 2013 my husband was having some issues. Our doctor pulled strings and got him in to see a cardiologist in about a week. The cardiologist booked him for an angiogram, but the wait list was about 4 months long. I put him on a cancellation list and he got a call about 7 weeks after he saw the cardiologist.

They did the angiogram, and he was told he needed a triple bypass. The cardiologist said that if he sent Mr. mossy home he would be waiting 3 months for surgery and he would die before then. So he stayed in that hospital for 10 days before they had a surgical date for him, and he was transferred to another hospital for surgery, where he ended up having a quadruple bypass. The cardiologist said that his worst blockage was at a junction of 3 vessels they call the widowmaker.

My sister had to have a knee replacement last year. She saw the surgeon in January and he told her they were booking surgeries in November. She was able to get a cancellation and went in the beginning of September. Far too long a wait, and not uncommon, for that type of surgery.

I heard on the local news just the other day that cancer patients are getting worse and some are dying because wait times for CT and MRI scans are horrendous.

It seems that once you get in the system, like my husband, thanks to our family doctor and the cardiologist, things move marginally faster. But forget it if somebody doesn't think you are urgently in need of something.

Granted, we paid nothing out of pocket for his surgery and hospital stay and home care gor a week after he was released or cardio rehab. But we pay high taxes.

Mine was "the widowmaker" one too. It feeds the entire left side of the heart. :-(

I had no symptoms so if I hadn't had the stress test I would never have known and if I lived in Canada, from what you are saying, without symptoms, getting a routine stress test would have taken months on the waiting list. Here my doctor told me it was time for a stress test and I made the reservation and was in for the test in a week. I could have done it sooner but I had to schedule it with my work to get a day off.

And yes I do pay premiums, deductibles and co-pays, more than I like. I have a "high-deductible health care plan" where I have to pay 100% of the first $3000, then 10% of the cost till I reach $4,000, but then 100% is covered at no charge. So $4,000 per year is my max. But I bet you pay more that $4000 a year in taxes for your "free" healthcare. I am sure I would if they ever pass such a thing here.

[Mountain Man]

I had no symptoms so if I hadn't had the stress test I would never have known and if I lived in Canada, from what you are saying, without symptoms, getting a routine stress test would have taken months on the waiting list. Here my doctor told me it was time for a stress test and I made the reservation and was in for the test in a week. I could have done it sooner but I had to schedule it with my work to get a day off.

In my case, I mentioned occasional lightheadedness during a routine checkup. That prompted my doctor to take a closer look, and the rest is history. My surgeon said that I had possibly the worst calcified valve he had ever seen -- the result of a birth defect -- and that he was shocked I didn't have every symptom in the book. He has no idea how I was regularly physically active and could go for hours without experiencing any shortness of breath.

[mossrose]

The only symptom my husband had was shortness of breath. He had no angina and never had a heart attack. God's hand was on him, of this I am sure.

[Watermelon]

Your perspective is not unique. So many organizations rank countries like England and Canada ahead of the US in terms of healthcare, but whenever you hear anecdotes from common citizens, they invariably hate it and have nothing but nightmare stories to tell. Meanwhile, last year, I received world class treatment for atrial stenosis within weeks of my diagnosis. I was immediately scheduled for testing and could have had surgery even quicker but chose to stay with my surgeon who has an excellent reputation -- he's the kind of surgeon that other surgeons would want if they needed an operation. And my employer provided health insurance covered every cent of the $80,000 bill. I don't know where I would be today if I had to depend on government rationed healthcare.

[Watermelon]

One of the primary reasons is due to our legal system. For one example, John Edwards (the disgraced former Senator who was John Kerry's running mate in 2004) became famous for winning huge lawsuits by second guessing the decisions of doctors. If complications arose during childbirth he sued them for not having performed a Caesarean instead. This innovative tactic was quickly picked up by other lawyers which resulted in a increase in Caesareans nationwide as doctors sought to avoid being sued. Edwards was a master of making emotion-based pleas essentially arguing that someone got hurt so someone needed to pay for it and since doctors and insurance companies have deep pockets they can afford to pay even if they didn't do anything wrong.

There have been several attempts at tort reform but all have failed in that the Trial Lawyers Association's lobbies are very powerful (they've had a virtual stranglehold on the Democrats and have been gaining influence among Republicans every year).

[Terraceth]

Your perspective is not unique. So many organizations rank countries like England and Canada ahead of the US in terms of healthcare, but whenever you hear anecdotes from common citizens, they invariably hate it and have nothing but nightmare stories to tell.

Conversely, though, I've heard a lot of nightmare stories about US healthcare.