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  • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    It is simply a medical treatment for women who wish to terminate their pregnancy. It is something they would rather not do.
    Then why do they do it?
    Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      But it’s rarely an easy decision as you indicate.
      "Oh dear, I really can't afford to have a baby right now, but I also really really don't want to prevent pregnancy. Oh whatever shall I do?!"
      Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
        And, by definition, nobody, including you, wants an unwanted pregnancy.
        Not true. There's a loooooooooong line of people waiting to adopt infants. Every pregnancy is wanted by someone, even if that someone is not one of the biological parents.
        Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by simplicio View Post
          How effective are those crisis pregnancy centers?

          How effective are churches in not shaming single moms, or he;ping them out?

          Is getting pregnant out of wedlock, and then carrying the baby, seen as a shameful act, or is it seen as a cause for celebration of life?
          Even the most hardcore fundamentalist churches I've been to have not shamed single mothers but rather welcomed them.
          Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
            Even the most hardcore fundamentalist churches I've been to have not shamed single mothers but rather welcomed them.
            I wonder what all the fuss is about with the purity culture!

            What is the reaction in a fundamentalist church if the single mother comes from within the church itself?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by simplicio View Post
              I wonder what all the fuss is about with the purity culture!

              What is the reaction in a fundamentalist church if the single mother comes from within the church itself?
              Obviously someone caught in sin is going to feel ashamed, and they should, because sin is not something to be proud of, but the person shouldn't be driven from the congregation unless they are unrepentant and creating discord.

              As for how any one church would respond, it's impossible to say because they don't all walk in lock step.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                I wonder what all the fuss is about with the purity culture!

                What is the reaction in a fundamentalist church if the single mother comes from within the church itself?
                What is the reaction in YOUR church, both toward single mothers and abortions?

                Do you follow your church's teachings regarding birth control and abortions?


                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                  I wonder what all the fuss is about with the purity culture!

                  What is the reaction in a fundamentalist church if the single mother comes from within the church itself?
                  I was referring to people already within the church itself. What did you think I meant? And why on Earth would we say "don't have an abortion, have the baby!" and then turn around and treat a woman like garbage for doing exactly that? Regarding purity, yes, it's important because it prevents exactly this situation in the first place but if a woman can admit she made a mistake and do the right thing to deal with it, then we can and should accept that.
                  Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Obviously someone caught in sin is going to feel ashamed, and they should, because sin is not something to be proud of, but the person shouldn't be driven from the congregation unless they are unrepentant and creating discord.

                    As for how any one church would respond, it's impossible to say because they don't all walk in lock step.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
                      Then why do they do it?
                      Because they do not want to be pregnant. Presumably, they had not planned to get pregnant either.
                      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                      “not all there” - you know who you are

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
                        Not true. There's a loooooooooong line of people waiting to adopt infants. Every pregnancy is wanted by someone, even if that someone is not one of the biological parents.
                        I don’t think you’ve thought that through.
                        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                        “not all there” - you know who you are

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          She was RCC and justified her actions by claiming that by having an abortion she only sinned once but by using birth control she was constantly sinning. I asked her what about her screwing around and didn't that constitute constantly sinning (fornication). To be fair I was doing a lot of that back then as well (screwing around that is).

                          Now, for the truly scary part. She often boasted how she taught a Sunday School class for young kids at her church. I can only imagine what sort of church that was.

                          Finally, I ran into her some 15 years or so later while working in sales for Orkin Pest Control (had the highest close rate in the region ) and she was married with two kids.


                          Now as for actresses... What would you say about Lena Dunham, who in her podcast in 2016 declared that she wished she could have an abortion as a stand of solidarity for women's rights? Pretty cavalier wouldn't you say?

                          And how about Busy Phillips who, only a little over a week ago, declared that her abortion was the reason for her professional success?

                          "There I was sitting in Los Angeles in my beautiful office of my own late night talk show. Soon I would be driving my hybrid car to my beautiful [f-bomb] home to kiss my two beautiful and healthy children and my husband, who had taken the year off to parent so I could focus on my career. And I have all of this, all of it, because I was allowed to have bodily autonomy at 15."


                          And how about Michelle Williams, who during her Golden Globes acceptance speech this January also credited having an abortion for her success declaring that

                          "I’ve tried my very best to make a life of my own making. I wouldn’t have been able to do this without employing a women’s right to choose. To choose when to have children, and with whom."


                          Please note how the Time magazine article points out how the audience of actors and actress (and other Hollyweird types) applauded her comments.

                          And maybe, just maybe, a better way to "choose when to have children, and with whom" is to not sleep around. Seems to be better than killing your mistakes.


                          ETA: Back in 2019 Alyssa Milano revealed that she had two abortions in 1993 because she wanted to focus on her career and was "not ready to be a parent."
                          Of course, you can find examples of irresponsible approaches to abortion and string them together to make it appear like a tsunami of crass self-absorbed women who regard abortion as no more significant than a “nose-job” – this is your forte when it comes to promoting an agenda. But it’s dishonest and misleading.

                          Yes, such women exist but overall, women having abortions are not the cavalier “baby-killers” you would have them be. “The main reasons women cited for ending pregnancies were: Having a baby would dramatically interfere with their education, work or ability to care for their dependents, or they could not afford a baby at the time. In addition, qualitative data from in-depth interviews portrayed women who had had an abortion as typically feeling that they had no other choice, given their limited resources and existing responsibilities to others”.

                          “The decision to have an abortion is typically motivated by multiple, diverse and interrelated reasons. The themes of responsibility to others and resource limitations, such as financial constraints and lack of partner support, recurred throughout the study”.

                          https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/...e-perspectives
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                            You didn't convey the opposite impression, rather I noted the similarities in many pro choicers and pro lifers. While I am pro life, I do think few pro choicers are the rabid baby killers they are made out to be.

                            When the argument shifts to hard choices a woman faces, both the pro life and pro choice sides do sound similar. Seldom does the abortion arguments move to the topic of why a woman makes the decision to abort. And that is the real failure of the pro life movement and why we are making so little progress.

                            I do not think that the examples of a woman treating the procedure in a light and cavalier manner represents any significant portion of the woman who get an abortion. That is why I remark that few pro lifers have been involved with any ministry to women. In most cases they are faced with difficult choices on all sides, many would avoid abortion if they had choices open to them. Fr Pavone, of Priests for Life, has commented that abortions happen because of a lack of practical options.

                            Bottom line is that your post sounded like it could have come from a pro lifer with experience in ministries to woman (Rachel's Vineyard for one), while the pro lifers here sound like they have never been exposed to a Rachel Vineyard type ministry. Viewed from that angle, who is more "pro life": Tassman the atheist pro choicer or the various Christian pro lifers? You have accepted the key argument of those pro life groups, which few Christians are willing to address, let alone accept.

                            Do we treat the abortion issue in an academic manner, divorced from the realities a woman faces? That question will likely be trounced as 'trolling' by pro life Christians. But there can be no progress without address the realities of the conditions the women are faced with.
                            I agree with much of what you say. I don’t think abortion is a desirable course of action but sometimes it is the only reasonable one and in the final analysis it is the woman’s choice.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
                              I was referring to people already within the church itself. What did you think I meant? And why on Earth would we say "don't have an abortion, have the baby!" and then turn around and treat a woman like garbage for doing exactly that? Regarding purity, yes, it's important because it prevents exactly this situation in the first place but if a woman can admit she made a mistake and do the right thing to deal with it, then we can and should accept that.
                              Praise the Lord the Lord, that you and your church do a good job on facing the unwed pregnancy within its ranks. But one criticism of the purity culture as it actually exists, is that a woman, carrying the miracle of life in her womb, is faced with mixed reactions. Should admitting to an unwed pregnancy a cause for shame, or a celebration of life?

                              https://www.care-net.org/churches-bl...y-is-not-a-sin

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                                Of course, you can find examples of irresponsible approaches to abortion and string them together to make it appear like a tsunami of crass self-absorbed women who regard abortion as no more significant than a “nose-job” – this is your forte when it comes to promoting an agenda. But it’s dishonest and misleading.

                                Yes, such women exist but overall, women having abortions are not the cavalier “baby-killers” you would have them be. “The main reasons women cited for ending pregnancies were: Having a baby would dramatically interfere with their education, work or ability to care for their dependents, or they could not afford a baby at the time. In addition, qualitative data from in-depth interviews portrayed women who had had an abortion as typically feeling that they had no other choice, given their limited resources and existing responsibilities to others”.

                                “The decision to have an abortion is typically motivated by multiple, diverse and interrelated reasons. The themes of responsibility to others and resource limitations, such as financial constraints and lack of partner support, recurred throughout the study”.

                                https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/...e-perspectives
                                I guess this is your way of admitting that you were yet again talking out of the orifice that you sit on when you tried to imply if not outright declare that actresses have indeed said they've had abortions in order to further their careers was B.S.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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