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Does Socialism align with Scripture?

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  • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    What about an efficient government system?

    I seem to recall reading that Bill Gates, who wants to give away most of his billions, after studying the effectiveness of various charities around the world, concluded that the most effective thing he could do with his money was to donate it to existing government aid programs, rather than private charities.
    Charities for '''''''''overseas aid''''''''''' are more corrupt than African dictatorships? Demi would not be surprised.
    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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    • Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
      Charities for '''''''''overseas aid''''''''''' are more corrupt than African dictatorships? Demi would not be surprised.
      ????

      How many of those charities are Christian operated charities?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
        Do you think at the very least, people should be given the basic necessities to live?
        Define ‘basic necessities’.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          It would perhaps be coveting if people on the left wanted it for themselves. But, actually, they want it to go to those in need, which is called love, charity, justice, mercy, and compassion. From your posts I strongly suspect you are unfamiliar with those things, so I'm not surprised you don't recognize them when you see them and think them to be a vice.

          What I could never figure out was why those on the right can't see the obvious selfishness, greed, love of money, and lack of love and lack of compassion for others, that their positions are all about. I don't see their views as being compatible with Christianity because of this. But so many people seem to think they can be both right-wingers and Christians. Bizarre.
          “The government needs to take care of me because I can’t do it myself.”
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            It would perhaps be coveting if people on the left wanted it for themselves. But, actually, they want it to go to those in need, which is called love, charity, justice, mercy, and compassion. From your posts I strongly suspect you are unfamiliar with those things, so I'm not surprised you don't recognize them when you see them and think them to be a vice.

            What I could never figure out was why those on the right can't see the obvious selfishness, greed, love of money, and lack of love and lack of compassion for others, that their positions are all about. I don't see their views as being compatible with Christianity because of this. But so many people seem to think they can be both right-wingers and Christians. Bizarre.
            You seem to overlook the corruption in the US Government. The Congress members, whether Democrat or Republican, end up becoming millionaires after they have been in office for a few years. And people like Hunter Biden also mysteriously have the same benefit. It is amazing how rich these people become while striving to give benefits to the general population, a goal which has not been advanced in the last 50 years -- but people still vote in people to Congress who continue making such promises. It is these useless people that you would have in control of the increased socialized programs.

            You seem to miss the fact that Trump was selected primarily as a response to the lack of improvements in the US government over these many years -- whether it be by people wanting to gain benefits from the feds or to reduce corruption. If Trump can not clear out this selfish motive within the government, we have no reason to give more powers to Congress.

            Scripture does not endorse putting your trust in man, in whom there is no salvation.
            Last edited by mikewhitney; 03-16-2020, 12:50 PM.

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            • I notice Starlight is still not able to deal with my 2 posts here and here on his lack of contextual reading and then twisting the bible to say what he wants it to say. I guess he is conceding that he does not know the bible as well has he pretends to and is not taking what it says seriously. He is also admitting that he has falsely accused the conservatives who do take the bible seriously of doing to the bible what he does, read into it what he wants to instead of taking out of it what it says.

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              • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                Define ‘basic necessities’.
                Shelter, food, healthcare and education.

                Living in a privileged nation like we do, these are things I would consider basic necessities that everyone should be entitled to.

                We shouldn’t have people starving because they have no money for food or unnecessarily in pain or sick because they can’t afford to see a doctor or living on the streets because they have no place to go or being unable to acquire skills or the knowledge to work where they want.

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                • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
                  Shelter, food, healthcare and education.

                  Living in a privileged nation like we do, these are things I would consider basic necessities that everyone should be entitled to.

                  We shouldn’t have people starving because they have no money for food or unnecessarily in pain or sick because they can’t afford to see a doctor or living on the streets because they have no place to go or being unable to acquire skills or the knowledge to work where they want.
                  So does the government need to pay my house payment, for me?

                  FYI, Americans are not starving.
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    So does the government need to pay my house payment, for me?
                    Are you unable to provide lodging for yourself?

                    FYI, Americans are not starving.
                    Does every American have a place to live, three meals a day, clothing and internet access?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                      So does the government need to pay my house payment, for me?
                      Not unless you can’t afford your basic necessities.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                        Are you unable to provide lodging for yourself?
                        Is housing a right?

                        Does every American have a place to live, three meals a day, clothing and internet access?
                        And where does that burden sit?
                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
                          Not unless you can’t afford your basic necessities.
                          Why? Housing is a right, correct?
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Charities are usually far more efficient at helping folks than a bloated bureaucracy is. Hence, less taxes and more charities. This will give the left a chance to put their money where their mouths are. Or are they only good at helping with other people's money and too stingy to use their own?
                            How effective are charities? Or to be more direct, how effectiveare Christian charities?

                            I argue that Christian charities are very efficient, effective on a micro scale (sometimes, there are many examples inefficient Christian charities), however, they are not really effective on broad scale, national level. They are restricted by their revenues, how willing individuals are to give for their cause. That is why many have sought to have government tax dollars be administered by the Christian charity.

                            Private charity can coexist with public charity, programs run on taxpayer dollars. Yes, people may not check on their neighbors when they should, but I doubt that is because the central government takes on charitable functions.

                            Comment


                            • The important thing about the right to housing is that any person refusing that right will be found guilty of a crime and put in jail.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                                How effective are charities?
                                There's a whole movement called effective altruism that's interested in measuring precisely this, and optimizing how effective charity is. Because, of course, utilitarians are quite interested in maximizing the good they do.

                                Which reminds me, I really ought to read more of the writings of the philosophers who started that movement. What I've read so far by Peter Singer has been quite good. And I don't think I've read anything yet by Toby Ord or William MacAskill. I find moral philosophy to be one of the few sub-topics in philosophy where living philosophers tend to be far more interesting to read than historical philosophers.

                                I argue that Christian charities are very efficient, effective on a micro scale (sometimes, there are many examples inefficient Christian charities), however, they are not really effective on broad scale, national level.
                                If you're going to be poor, it's preferable to do it in a rich area, and then you have a good choice of well-funded charities to help you. Whereas being poor in a poor area... not such a good choice.

                                Obviously, if you leave helping those in need up to charity, you get very uneven and non-standardized coverage nationally. In some areas the charity might be really really good. In others there might be none. I would say that, in general, if we want to see those in need helped, such extreme variation isn't really acceptable, and there needs to be an organized national entity (e.g. a government) ensuring that everyone receives at least a certain minimum level of assistance which is standardized nationwide. If local charities can help some people more in addition to that, great.
                                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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