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Matthew 24:21 - Hyperbole?

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  • Matthew 24:21 - Hyperbole?

    Preterists interpret Matthew 24:21 as hyperbole: "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

    Okay. The argument is that Jesus was symbolizing a very terrible time in Jerusalem, but that it didn't necessarily mean it would be unprecedented, because clearly there have been situations in history that have been at least equally terrible as the 70 AD war. Then they go on to point out other similar phrases in scripture to prove their case that it's just hyperbole and that Jesus was following a similar style of language.

    I might accept that as a reasonable argument if it were just that one verse in Matthew. The problem is that they always ignore the following verse: "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

    Putting aside who and what the "elect" is (which raises a whole other slew of issues and debate), Jesus is clearly describing a situation in history that will be terrible. We all agree.

    But then he seems to offer God's solution that will mitigate that terrible situation. How does that fit into the hyperbole paradigm? I'm sure preterists can make it fit forcefully, but I'm guessing it would end up more of a stretch than to just assume a literal unprecedented time of history, which will require an unprecedented divine action -- God's intervention.

    Futurist interpretation: This is how I'm guessing many futurists interpret this passage, which I feel needs to clear some things up.

    First of all, I happen to agree with the preterists about the interpretation of the word "world." End of the world in the OD just means End of the age, not the literal making of a new heaven and earth. In a pre-mil paradigm, the ACTUAL end of the world doesn't occur until another thousand years after the tribulation. I'm not sure how a futurist, who rejects a pre-mil belief, would interpret that, but then I've never personally met a futurist who doesn't hold a pre-mil belief. The eschatological positions seem to go hand-in-hand.

    With that said, Jesus is literally talking about a time of mass human population die-off as a result of the tribulation. It's unprecedented because the world population has never been this big before. We see this in Rev 6:8, where it describes a quarter of the population dying off. Then in Rev 9:18, another third of the population is wiped out. Now, I'm no mathematician, but that's a whole lot of people, possibly more than half the population -- 3-4 billion people, something that has never happened in the history of mankind -- "such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

    It's a scary thing, and it undoubtedly makes a lot of folks, including Christians, uncomfortable. So, no, the OD is not describing the end of the world, it's the end of the age. And, no, everyone in the world doesn't die off UP TO Armageddon (and I don't even believe everyone is killed during this event either, but that's a whole other story). Why are folks still left alive up to this event? Because the following verse explains why -- "And EXCEPT those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved."

  • #2
    Originally posted by seanD View Post
    But then he seems to offer God's solution that will mitigate that terrible situation. How does that fit into the hyperbole paradigm? I'm sure preterists can make it fit forcefully, but I'm guessing it would end up more of a stretch than to just assume a literal unprecedented time of history, which will require an unprecedented divine action -- God's intervention.
    God's direct intervention isn't unprecedented. He intervened at Babel:

    Scripture Verse: Genesis 11

    5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
    8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

    © Copyright Original Source



    From thence came "the Gentiles" or nations. The end times is about the attempt by "the nations" formed at Babel to reverse God's action at Babel and bring about a "one world order". This idea is replete in European Union symbolism.

    Scripture Verse: Psalm 2

    1
    Why do the nations [Gentiles] conspire
    and the peoples plot in vain?
    2
    The kings of the earth rise up
    and the rulers band together
    against the Lord and against his anointed, saying,
    3
    “Let us break their chains
    and throw off their shackles.”

    © Copyright Original Source



    Scripture Verse: Luke 21

    24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations [Gentiles]. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles [nations formed at Babel] are fulfilled.

    © Copyright Original Source



    This will all require God's direct intervention again:

    Scripture Verse: Joel 3

    “In those days and at that time,
    when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
    2
    I will gather all nations [Gentiles]
    and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat [Armageddon].
    There I will put them on trial
    for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel,
    because they scattered [evoking Babel] my people among the nations
    and divided up my land. [Babel carried out on God's people by the Gentiles]

    © Copyright Original Source



    Scripture Verse: Revelation 16

    12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather [opposite of the scattering at Babel] them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.
    15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”
    16 Then they gathered [opposite of the scattering at Babel] the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

    © Copyright Original Source

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    • #3
      Who are the elect?

      "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
      I don't think there's any reasonable argument supporting any other identification of "the elect" in the NT other than Christians. Everywhere this term is used in the epistles, it's clearly reference to Christians. Hence, this was apparently a common identification by the apostles of God's chosen people in Christ.

      It's interesting that Jesus uses the word sparingly, which would also indicate a very special attribution, certainly not just a general class of Jews. He uses it once outside of the OD in Luke 18:7. In that passage, one could easily argue that the term is vague and doesn't clearly tell us who it's reference to.

      However, where he uses it in the OD does. I don't think anyone could possibly argue that Matthew 24:31 is a reference to anyone other than Christians, so this would make it an extreme stretch to argue that Matthew 24:24 is not also referring to Christians, in fact, I believe would be outright disingenuous.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by seanD View Post
        Who are the elect?



        I don't think there's any reasonable argument supporting any other identification of "the elect" in the NT other than Christians. Everywhere this term is used in the epistles, it's clearly reference to Christians. Hence, this was apparently a common identification by the apostles of God's chosen people in Christ.

        It's interesting that Jesus uses the word sparingly, which would also indicate a very special attribution, certainly not just a general class of Jews. He uses it once outside of the OD in Luke 18:7. In that passage, one could easily argue that the term is vague and doesn't clearly tell us who it's reference to.

        However, where he uses it in the OD does. I don't think anyone could possibly argue that Matthew 24:31 is a reference to anyone other than Christians, so this would make it an extreme stretch to argue that Matthew 24:24 is not also referring to Christians, in fact, I believe would be outright disingenuous.
        Matthew 24:21

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        • #5
          There was another thread started about this exact same topic in Deeper Waters several days ago IIRC. It's certainly one of the more difficult verses for preterism.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            There was another thread started about this exact same topic in Deeper Waters several days ago IIRC. It's certainly one of the more difficult verses for preterism.
            But even with the term "the elite" aside, Matthew 24:21-22 makes very little sense for preterism. The passage is indicating that so many humans will die, unless God intervenes, every human will die. Sure, you could say Jesus was again using hyperbole to express a whole lot of folks dying during the 70 AD war (which again, I'm sure paled in comparison to even wars that had occurred prior), but how does God intervening to prevent that from happening work in that situation?

            Comment


            • #7
              It sounds very similar to Daniel 12:1.

              12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
              It's put right before the resurrection. (12:2) Irenaeus seems to associate it with types, parables, and the advent of Christ (IV.XXVI.1). (Dan 12:4)
              The Capitol Insurrection And Religion

              https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...t_bibl_vppi_i0

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              • #8
                Originally posted by eschaton View Post
                It sounds very similar to Daniel 12:1.



                It's put right before the resurrection. (12:2) Irenaeus seems to associate it with types, parables, and the advent of Christ (IV.XXVI.1). (Dan 12:4)
                I'm personally not a huge believer that much of Daniel has any relevance to future events (Rev and Dan seem to be completely different in their descriptions), but that correlation with Matthew is pretty hard refute.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Equivalence of ancient famine in our modern times = hoarding and supply chain disruption.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seanD View Post
                    Equivalence of ancient famine in our modern times = hoarding and supply chain disruption.
                    Yep, and also famine.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                      Yep, and also famine.
                      Very true. But for a long time I wasn't sure how famine could possibly affect modern, wealthy, western developed countries. That's the one thing I struggled with in the OD. Now we know.

                      Comment

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