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Donald Trump and the Coronavirus

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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    This assumes that all countries are testing at the same rate. It also assumes that all countries are being equally honest in their reporting. Are either of these assumptions true?
    You're right! The U.S. is WAY under-testing. Excellent observation!

    Although that means our reported numbers are probably low, I do think the reports coming out are accurate to what has been tested. After all, it's not Trump reporting them. Then we wouldn't be able to trust them at ALL!
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • Originally posted by carpedmprig View Post
      I do think the reports coming out are accurate to what has been tested.
      In the case of the US, probably, because the US healthcare system is traditionally more comprehensive and honest in its reporting, but what about other countries? Are they testing at the same rate as the US, and more importantly, how honest is their reporting? Unless there is a way to conduct an independent audit, it's impossible to draw any definitive conclusions about how well each country is handling the situation.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        In the case of the US, probably, because the US healthcare system is traditionally more comprehensive and honest in its reporting, but what about other countries? Are they testing at the same rate as the US, and more importantly, how honest is their reporting? Unless there is a way to conduct an independent audit, it's impossible to draw any definitive conclusions about how well each country is handling the situation.
        U.S. testing rates have been below the rates in most other developed countries, at least until recently. That is due to poor coordination of resources, discounting the severity of the situation, and Trump's unwillingness to act on the Defense Production Act. I haven't looked at the current testing rates. NY is doing a bang-up job, which is one of the two reasons for their large numbers.

        But there is little doubt in my mind that the total reported infections are just a part of the iceberg of infections that are currently undetected throughout the world, including the U.S.


        Your statistical friend -

        Carpe de Prig
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedmprig View Post
          U.S. testing rates have been below the rates in most other developed countries...
          And how do we know the numbers being reported by other countries are accurate? Is there an independent body that can perform an audit? If not then it would be extremely easy for a government to make itself look good in the eyes of the world by gaming the stats and over reporting the number of tests performed and under reporting the number of confirmed cases.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            And how do we know the numbers being reported by other countries are accurate?
            We don't. No "rates" are 100% accurate. They are the best picture available with the available data. No one can prove "100% accurate," especially in the midst of a crisis.

            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Is there an independent body that can perform an audit?
            Nope

            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            If not then it would be extremely easy for a government to make itself look good in the eyes of the world by gaming the stats and over reporting the number of tests performed and under reporting the number of confirmed cases.
            Yes, it would. I'm sure some countries (e.g., China) are. I believe most developed countries are not. You may think otherwise if you wish.


            Your earnest nemesis -

            Carpe de Prig
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • Well, well, well...Trump finally is "woke" and paying attention to reality. It would have been nice if it hadn't taken two months, but at least this is progress.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                I cannot believe you actually typed that - and apparently actually believe it.


                From the actual Mueller report:

                “Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations.


                and

                “The incidents were often carried out through one-on-one meetings in which the President sought to use his official power outside of usual channels. These actions ranged from efforts to remove the Special Counsel and to reverse the effect of the Attorney General’s recusal; to the attempted use of official power to limit the scope of the investigation; to direct and indirect contacts with witnesses with the potential to influence their testimony.”
                That goes back to the obstruction nonsense. He allowed them access to anyone and everyone. He put a stop on ALL documents so that they would be saved turning over several million -- every thing they requested. Not once did he claim Executive Privilege.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  Well, well, well...Trump finally is "woke" and paying attention to reality. It would have been nice if it hadn't taken two months, but at least this is progress.
                  About the same time it took China to stop lying about how the China Flu spreads, but will ignore that detail so you can keep hating Trump.
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by carpedmprig View Post
                    Well, well, well...Trump finally is "woke" and paying attention to reality. It would have been nice if it hadn't taken two months, but at least this is progress.
                    Alternative headline:

                    "President Trump listens to experts; takes leadership role in extending coronavirus response"

                    But, no, you're the guy who welcomes hardship so long as he thinks he can blame it on his President.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      This assumes that all countries are testing at the same rate. It also assumes that all countries are being equally honest in their reporting. Are either of these assumptions true?
                      This is confirmed case trends over time. Yes China was dishonest reporting deaths, so you can discount the China curve, but the the rest of the countries are reasonable on reporting. The problem remains that testing the USA is very very late, and major testing only began in the last week or so. The government under Trump was never proactive in dealing with the virus in the USA and only very recent took extreme measures. The cat is out of the bag long gone.

                      Do you agree with Trump that the corona virus is just like the 'common flu.'?
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                        The government under Trump was never proactive in dealing with the virus in the USA...
                        Fake news. In fact, Trump has been very proactive starting in late January when he was one of the first world leaders to restrict China travel, a decision which liberals claimed was rooted in racism.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          That goes back to the obstruction nonsense. He allowed them access to anyone and everyone. He put a stop on ALL documents so that they would be saved turning over several million -- every thing they requested. Not once did he claim Executive Privilege.
                          As you wish, Rogue. Never let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                            About the same time it took China to stop lying about how the China Flu spreads, but will ignore that detail so you can keep hating Trump.
                            So you're proud that Trump took as long to wake up as it took China to stop lying?

                            That's not much of a defense.


                            BTW - China is, as best we can tell, still lying. That has little or nothing to do with Trump's poor handling of this crisis - or his "me" centered approach to everything. It was slightly nauseating to watch each and every executive at yesterday's briefing fawn and tell Trump how grateful they were for his leadership. But what should we expect - Trump has made it clear from the outset that anyone who does not appropriately fawn becomes a target and those who appropriately fawn make headway. It was reminiscent of that grotesque cabinet meeting in Trump's first year...
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Alternative headline:

                              "President Trump listens to experts; takes leadership role in extending coronavirus response"

                              But, no, you're the guy who welcomes hardship so long as he thinks he can blame it on his President.
                              His experts have been talking for two months now - and Trump JUST stopped saying "we have it all under control" and "this is going to go to zero" about 10 days ago. Sorry, MM, but those of us who are paying attention don't buy the rewriting of history this man and his sycophantic followers regularly engage in. We have weeks of him on video saying exactly the wrong thing...
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                So you're proud that Trump took as long to wake up as it took China to stop lying?

                                That's not much of a defense.


                                BTW - China is, as best we can tell, still lying. That has little or nothing to do with Trump's poor handling of this crisis - or his "me" centered approach to everything. It was slightly nauseating to watch each and every executive at yesterday's briefing fawn and tell Trump how grateful they were for his leadership. But what should we expect - Trump has made it clear from the outset that anyone who does not appropriately fawn becomes a target and those who appropriately fawn make headway. It was reminiscent of that grotesque cabinet meeting in Trump's first year...
                                And the point zooms over your head. In your rush to blame Trump for all your problems, you seem to have forgotten who gave us this lovely gift and the lies that has taken place before, during, and after this whole thing is done by China. Don’t worry, you can keep blaming Trump for everything if it makes you feel better.
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                                Comment

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