Donald Trump and the Coronavirus

[carpedm9587]

WHO/CDC isn’t the same thing.

As noted - my mistake. Same question: do you think the WHO was intentionally lying?

November/December/January, how many months is that?

You have an odd way of counting time. The earliest case is believed to have happened on November 17th, but we didn't know THAT until early March. Before then we thought the outbreak began in December. The first documented notification we have from China to the WHO dates to 12/30, and it references a cluster of pneumonia cases of unknown origin. The WHO made its incorrect announcement, based on information provided by China, in mid-January. So we have documented evidence of a couple of weeks, and it may have been a month (though we have no evidence of that), but we have no evidence of "months."

Try again because either the WHO repeated the lie, without knowing or the WHO knew and lied anyway, what one is the answer?

Someone repeating a lie is not necessarily lying. They are only lying if they repeat the lie knowing it is untrue. Again - do you believe the WHO intentionally lied?

China lied and people are dying, why are you trying to excuse it away Carp?

I have said nothing about China lying nor have I attempted to excuse it away. China's lying is indefensible, and I have been clear about that. You appear to be constructing yet another strawman, or possibly intentionally lying about what I said.

[shunyadragon]

How long does the disease take to show symptoms Shuny? How long can a person be not showing signs of the China Flu and be spreading the illness? A month is a long time for a disease to spread unchecked and your excuses for China and their lies, would be amusing if it wasn’t going to cost lives. Thanks China and liberals for excusing it all away.

You did not answer my post, nor back up your bogus accusation concerning WHO. I make no excuses for China, and I acknowledge Chinas lies.

Waiting for you to respond.

The early reporting to WHO was by a doctor not the Bejing government. who later ignored his warning for a pandemic, and he was censured by the government, lost his job, and died of the coronavirus. The government later denied even that the virus started in Wuhan.

The initial reporting to and by WHO is accurate and documented.

[shunyadragon]

Ahhh...you're right. My mistake.

Same question: are you accusing the WHO of intentionally deceiving the public?

WHO's response is well documented and cited. It is public information.

[carpedm9587]

Even GOP governors are calling Trump out on his misrepresentations.

[Charles]

Even GOP governors are calling Trump out on his misrepresentations.

Prediction: for some reason, yet to be found, we should not trust them.

[Sparko]

Prediction: for some reason, yet to be found, we should not trust them.

It takes time to ramp up production on anything.

[carpedm9587]

It takes time to ramp up production on anything.

We can ramp up production on ventilators and PPE within days of the order going out, but two months later we still have a shortage of testing kits?


Is this really your argument?

[Charles]

It takes time to ramp up production on anything.

However, that is not really adressing the point which is that Trump is not telling the truth about the situation:

Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, a Republican, said Tuesday on NPR's Morning Edition that President Donald Trump was incorrect in saying coronavirus testing problems had been resolved.

"Yeah, that's just not true. I mean I know that they've taken some steps to create new tests, but they're not actually produced and distributed out to the states."

[carpedm9587]

However, that is not really adressing the point which is that Trump is not telling the truth about the situation:

And that too...

[Sparko]

We can ramp up production on ventilators and PPE within days of the order going out, but two months later we still have a shortage of testing kits?


Is this really your argument?

they are still short on ventilators too. And masks. We have already done more testing than any other country, including China. And now they just came out with the quick 5-minute test machine, and it takes time to produce them. Hopefully they will be able to spread out the manufacture to other companies. But people just like to complain and expect everything instantly.

[Charles]

And that too...

You should have started a new thread called: "Even Now The President Is Lying..." along the lines of seer's post "Even Now The Press Is Lying..."

[carpedm9587]

they are still short on ventilators too. And masks. We have already done more testing than any other country, including China. And now they just came out with the quick 5-minute test machine, and it takes time to produce them. Hopefully they will be able to spread out the manufacture to other companies. But people just like to complain and expect everything instantly.

Yes - they are - but those are more complex to make and it has only been days since the production orders were put in place. We have known we needed test kits for at LEAST a month now. Its one of the first things everyone was screaming for - because without them we are (as many governors have said) flying blind. We cannot even accurately predict the number of PPEs and ventilators needed without the data from the testing.

This is a major gaff on the part of the administration. If other countries are testing at rate X per capita, we should be able to test at at LEAST that rate. Otherwise, the U.S. has to acknowledge it is worse at planning and manufacturing than the countries that are cleaning our clock.

And please do not give me "China lied" or "the test kits had false negatives " or "we're not a disctatorship." China lied to everyone - not just us - and we have one of the better intelligence communities and they were already warning Trump about the lying in January. And the false negatives is a false story. AFAIK, the only test kits known to have 30-50% false negatives were the ones China was using. And the countries that are beating us on testing include such democracies as S. Korea, Germany, and Italy, Spain, and Switzerland.

And that STILL does not excuse Trump for lying about "having the testing under control." We demonstrably don't. As a result, our data about the number of cases is probably WAY off. NY is the most aggressive and probably has the best numbers.

[JimL]

they are still short on ventilators too. And masks. We have already done more testing than any other country, including China. And now they just came out with the quick 5-minute test machine, and it takes time to produce them. Hopefully they will be able to spread out the manufacture to other companies. But people just like to complain and expect everything instantly.

The point is to maximize testing and to do it immediately in order to contain the virus from spreading in the first place. To argue that the U.S. is testing more now than any one else is irrelevant. Six weeks late and hundreds of thousands short. That's what happens when downplaying it's seriousness, and failing to contain the virus right off the bat, it spreads exponentially making containment that much more difficult, allowing many more to get sick and many more to die and the economy to go down the tubes.

[lilpixieofterror]

Since it's actually from late November to 14th January, less than two.

November, December, January, how many months is that, mr nitpick and this assumes that the CCP is telling the truth and didn’t hear about it in early November or even late October as some suggest. Since they spent time lying, covering it up, and destroying evidence, we may never know how early, but either way, they knew by mid Jan that Covid-19 was spreading person to person. They just lied about it.

I don't know. Probably at least a couple of weeks, since it takes that long for any symptoms to manifest. But so what? You wrote about the WHO, not about China.Even if they were (and this appears to be something you have invented), early December is not months before Jan 14th.

Reports from China’s own sources indicate that people begin showing up in hospitals, for Covid-19 infections, in mid November. Since symptoms can start as early as three days or late as two weeks, it shouldn’t have taken too long to figure out person to person spreading was happening as soon as hospital staff and family/friends of the infected started showing signs of infection. Yet, the CCP lied, covered it up, and destroyed evidence. That’s not simple mistakes, that malice.

You aren't going to avoid your slander against the WHO by diverting to what China did or didn't do.

The WHO reported an incorrect fact, in mid January, correct? How imbedded is the WHO, with China? Did they independently confirm this? Is it true that the head of the WHO, owes his position thanks to the support of China? How is it slander, if it’s true? Billions of people were purposely mislead by the Chinese and the WHO was at the very least, an unwitting partner in this deception. Is that not true either?

Again, how can the WHO have known for months before Jan 14th that coronavirus was spreading from human to human when the first case was in late November and the first identified case in December?

It was mid November and it didn’t take long to figure out this was a new disease and it likely didn’t take long for the hospital staff to start becoming sick too. Either the WHO was an unwitting partner in selling this deception or they helped. Either way, the answer isn’t good.

[lilpixieofterror]

Ahhh...you're right. My mistake.

Same question: are you accusing the WHO of intentionally deceiving the public?

At best, they played the part of the unwitting fool at worst, they flat out lied. Either way, the CCP sold us on a huge lie and now we’re paying the price for this lie.