Donald Trump and the Coronavirus

[Bill the Cat]

I have been saying, for quite a while, that Trump can be forgiven for not taking all of the actions that would have protected the U.S. in the very earliest days of the pandemic. There was a lot of confusion in that time frame with different leaders making different claims. But from the moment there was a confirmed "communal transmission" case, his failure to act in the following three weeks - his failure to even acknowledge there was a serious problem until March 16th, is unforgivable and cost U.S. lives. Now we have a study that quantifies at least part of that.

This report is about a study that shows that implementing social distancing even a single week earlier (never mind three weeks) would have reduced the current death toll by upwards of 36,000 deaths. If you back it up by 2 weeks, the number becomes 54,000 avoided deaths.

THIS is what I think we, the voters, have to hold Trump accountable for on November 3rd: More than 54,000 families grieving the loss of a loved one they need not have lost.

Perhaps you can explain who called the CEO of Austal Shipbuilding on March 5 while my team was in his conference room to discuss operations during the COVID-19 shutdown? And why our Admiral sent us an email shutting our agency down that same day? Was the DoD acting on their own? Did POTUS just do it for fun? Or maybe he knew it was serious earlier, and acted on it, but the MSM just refuses to report it accurately?

[seanD]

I have been saying, for quite a while, that Trump can be forgiven for not taking all of the actions that would have protected the U.S. in the very earliest days of the pandemic. There was a lot of confusion in that time frame with different leaders making different claims. But from the moment there was a confirmed "communal transmission" case, his failure to act in the following three weeks - his failure to even acknowledge there was a serious problem until March 16th, is unforgivable and cost U.S. lives. Now we have a study that quantifies at least part of that.

This report is about a study that shows that implementing social distancing even a single week earlier (never mind three weeks) would have reduced the current death toll by upwards of 36,000 deaths. If you back it up by 2 weeks, the number becomes 54,000 avoided deaths.

THIS is what I think we, the voters, have to hold Trump accountable for on November 3rd: More than 54,000 families grieving the loss of a loved one they need not have lost.

Again with the "models." Because they've so far been so accurate.

[Mountain Man]

This report is about a study that shows that implementing social distancing even a single week earlier (never mind three weeks) would have reduced the current death toll by upwards of 36,000 deaths. If you back it up by 2 weeks, the number becomes 54,000 avoided deaths.

Entirely speculative and impossible to prove or disprove. The "study" is based entirely on models, and we know how absurdly wrong modeling has been throughout this whole pandemic.

[DivineOb]

Entirely speculative and impossible to prove or disprove. The "study" is based entirely on models, and we know how absurdly wrong modeling has been throughout this whole pandemic.

This is the line drawing fallacy. Just because the models are flawed doesn't mean they are worthless and we can't get anything useful from them.

[Mountain Man]

This is the line drawing fallacy. Just because the models are flawed doesn't mean they are worthless and we can't get anything useful from them.

Okay, so how would you prove or disprove this "study"?

[DivineOb]

Okay, so how would you prove or disprove this "study"?

I would read the study to understand their methodology and how large the error bars are. ~30k doesn't sound controversial to me so I'm not inclined to do so.

[Mountain Man]

I would read the study to understand their methodology and how large the error bars are. ~30k doesn't sound controversial to me so I'm not inclined to do so.

Ah, it's the good ol' "Sounds about right to me" methodology.

In fact, there is no way to prove or disprove a "study" that says, "If we had done X instead of Y then Z is one possible result."

[DivineOb]

Ah, it's the good ol' "Sounds about right to me" methodology.

In fact, there is no way to prove or disprove a "study" that says, "If we had done X instead of Y then Z is one possible result."

If you weren't as lazy as LPoT (snicker) you could try reading the study and seeing if you take issue with their methodology or error bars. But you're lazy so I guess you're just gonna have to accept their conclusions.

[carpedm9587]

Perhaps you can explain who called the CEO of Austal Shipbuilding on March 5 while my team was in his conference room to discuss operations during the COVID-19 shutdown? And why our Admiral sent us an email shutting our agency down that same day? Was the DoD acting on their own? Did POTUS just do it for fun? Or maybe he knew it was serious earlier, and acted on it, but the MSM just refuses to report it accurately?

I have no idea what happened within the military or why. I can only speak to what was done publicly. Up until March 16th, Trump was publicly saying "no problem - we have it under control - it will go away." On March 8th he was playing golf.

On March 16th, for the first time, Trump acknowledged publicly that there was a problem and began pushing for public steps to be taken. Not a word about social distancing and stay at home was made publicly before that date by his administration, AFAICT. And even after that date, many things that could/should have been done were not done.

[carpedm9587]

Again with the "models." Because they've so far been so accurate.

The models have actually been fairly solid, if you allow for the fact that they need to be updated when circumstances change. That is the error most on the right seem to make.

[Bill the Cat]

I have no idea what happened within the military or why. I can only speak to what was done publicly. Up until March 16th, Trump was publicly saying "no problem - we have it under control - it will go away." On March 8th he was playing golf.

On March 16th, for the first time, Trump acknowledged publicly that there was a problem and began pushing for public steps to be taken. Not a word about social distancing and stay at home was made publicly before that date by his administration, AFAICT. And even after that date, many things that could/should have been done were not done.

Exactly. I can speak to what was happening in the government. Active steps were being taken to prohibit government travel as early as late Feb.

[carpedm9587]

Exactly. I can speak to what was happening in the government. Active steps were being taken to prohibit government travel as early as late Feb.

So it appears Trump had one set of runs for the government and military - and another for the general public. I'm afraid protecting the military did nothing to protect the up to 54,000 lives that apparently could have been saved had Trump started doing publicly what he was apparently doing privately.

On 11/3 - he should have to pay for those lives.

Also happy to report that Trump's Job approval rating is now at a worse level than before the pandemic began, and it appears poised to slip even further. Maybe people are finally wising up to the narcissistic con man they put in the Oval Office.

[carpedm9587]

And more "excellent leadership" from the Spoiled-Child-In-Chief

He just doesn't care. He needs to be taken out of that office on 11/3.

[oxmixmudd]

So it appears Trump had one set of runs for the government and military - and another for the general public. I'm afraid protecting the military did nothing to protect the up to 54,000 lives that apparently could have been saved had Trump started doing publicly what he was apparently doing privately.

On 11/3 - he should have to pay for those lives.

Also happy to report that Trump's Job approval rating is now at a worse level than before the pandemic began, and it appears poised to slip even further. Maybe people are finally wising up to the narcissistic con man they put in the Oval Office.

You would hope so, and yet tt is amazing how during the latter part of Feb and well into March there was plenty of push back against Trumps refusal to wake up and respond - yet here we keep getting the line that Trump's response we the best that could have been expected. Maybe it's because they all were only watching fox or only reading breitbart. They still clearly think this 'really isn't so bad'. The rest of us know exactly how irresponsible Trump was during February and March. Basically, there is still a large part of the country that only sees what the president wants them to see because his 'Fake news' mantra has insulated them from the truth. Not sure how long it will take to overcome that.

[Charles]

I have been saying, for quite a while, that Trump can be forgiven for not taking all of the actions that would have protected the U.S. in the very earliest days of the pandemic. There was a lot of confusion in that time frame with different leaders making different claims. But from the moment there was a confirmed "communal transmission" case, his failure to act in the following three weeks - his failure to even acknowledge there was a serious problem until March 16th, is unforgivable and cost U.S. lives. Now we have a study that quantifies at least part of that.

This report is about a study that shows that implementing social distancing even a single week earlier (never mind three weeks) would have reduced the current death toll by upwards of 36,000 deaths. If you back it up by 2 weeks, the number becomes 54,000 avoided deaths.

THIS is what I think we, the voters, have to hold Trump accountable for on November 3rd: More than 54,000 families grieving the loss of a loved one they need not have lost.

And I note that some posters are seemingly more concerned with the fact that such models actually are models than they are with the human lives lost. We are talking such a human tragedy and they still focus on doing everything they can to take our eyes away from the death caused in part by an incompetent liar. Unfortunately it is no surprise at all.