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Donald Trump and the Coronavirus

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  • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    China.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      The government that has handled it best so far with a large outbreak is S Korea.
      Okay, but they have certain inherent advantages that the US lacks, as KingsGambit and rogue pointed out. That's why I was asking for an apples-to-apples comparison. I think the US has done as well as could be reasonably expected, and I don't know of any similar countries that have done better.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        The new cases in much of China are not locally contracted cases. but cases from those returning home. So yes, they are an example of a large country which is successful.

        We have largely ignored the lessons to be learned from China's experience, which had a few months head start. But now we are using the methods China used.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Okay, but they have certain inherent advantages that the US lacks, as KingsGambit and rogue pointed out. That's why I was asking for an apples-to-apples comparison. I think the US has done as well as could be reasonably expected, and I don't know of any similar countries that have done better.
          I think the US has done a terrible job. The country has spent trillions on defense over the past decades. So much money it boggles the mind. Meanwhile very little appears to be invested in protecting itself, and the world at large, from a pandemic. It is clear, that such preparation and funding is necessary - since this is going to cost trillions once the dust settles.

          So, what is reasonably expected is that the world, and the US, would have been prepared for such an event. That of course requires international cooperation, something Trumpism seems incapable of facilitating.

          Such events have happened in recent decades, with Ebola in particular. Following the creation of various international and national bodies that operated across global theatres, it was stopped in countries that have very little health infrastructure. The US among others is to be commended for its efforts. That was of course under the most evil man alive, Obama (according to the simple souls here). Meanwhile Trump, that wants to overturn the previous election be undoing anything and everything related to that terrible man, went and undid much of the pandemic planning and response capability developed to combat similar threats, among other health related cuts: https://forensicnews.net/2020/03/10/...in-the-making/

          Meanwhile the US, under Trump and his retard administration, has been delinquent in preparing for an event like this, as have others. I don't see how that make it better - everyone failed to see this coming (many health professionals saw it coming), so that makes it ok.
          Last edited by Zara; 03-24-2020, 03:23 AM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Zara View Post
            I think the US has done a terrible job. The country has spent trillions on defense over the past decades. So much money it boggles the mind. Meanwhile very little appears to be invested in protecting itself, and the world at large, from a pandemic. It is clear, that such preparation and funding is necessary - since this is going to cost trillions once the dust settles.

            So, what is reasonably expected is that the world, and the US, would have been prepared for such an event. That of course requires international cooperation, something Trumpism seems incapable of facilitating.

            Such events have happened in recent decades, with Ebola in particular. Following the creation of various international and national bodies that operated across global theatres, it was stopped in countries that have very little health infrastructure. The US among others is to be commended for its efforts. That was of course under the most evil man alive, Obama (according to the simple souls here). Meanwhile Trump, that wants to overturn the previous election be undoing anything and everything related to that terrible man, went and undid much of the pandemic planning and response capability developed to combat similar threats, among other health related cuts: https://forensicnews.net/2020/03/10/...in-the-making/

            Meanwhile the US, under Trump and his retard administration, has been delinquent in preparing for an event like this, as have others. I don't see how that make it better - everyone failed to see this coming (many health professionals saw it coming), so that makes it ok.
            Name 10 paramedic’s, over the past century, that killed over 1 million world wide.
            Name 10 wars, over the past century, that killed over 1 million.

            Bottom line, there really hasn’t been anything quite like this since your great great grandparents lived. In that same timeframe, there’s been many wars that have killed many more.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Zero View Post
              I think the US has done a terrible job.
              Are you all illiterate? I already know you low-information types think the US is behind the curve on this, but that's not what I asked. My question is, what other comparable country is handling it better than the Trump administration? So far, it seems that the answer is "no one".
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Zara View Post
                I think the US has done a terrible job. The country has spent trillions on defense over the past decades. So much money it boggles the mind. Meanwhile very little appears to be invested in protecting itself, and the world at large, from a pandemic. It is clear, that such preparation and funding is necessary - since this is going to cost trillions once the dust settles.
                This is an unprecedented in recent memory event. We are handling it the best we can. Containment and researching a vaccine are the top 2 priorities right now.

                So, what is reasonably expected is that the world, and the US, would have been prepared for such an event. That of course requires international cooperation, something Trumpism seems incapable of facilitating.
                No one is really working together. Countries are closing their borders and investing in their own economies. And I see no other country actually LEADING the effort to contain it worldwide. Except ol' Trumpy.

                Such events have happened in recent decades, with Ebola in particular. Following the creation of various international and national bodies that operated across global theatres, it was stopped in countries that have very little health infrastructure. The US among others is to be commended for its efforts. That was of course under the most evil man alive, Obama (according to the simple souls here).
                Sorry, but no. The Ebola outbreak was mainly centralized in Africa. It had not reached the US by any significant measure. This is not the same thing.

                Meanwhile Trump, that wants to overturn the previous election be undoing anything and everything related to that terrible man, went and undid much of the pandemic planning and response capability developed to combat similar threats, among other health related cuts: https://forensicnews.net/2020/03/10/...in-the-making/
                Utter nonsense. Those responsibilities were folded into other existing agencies that handle global catastrophes.

                Meanwhile the US, under Trump and his retard administration, has been delinquent in preparing for an event like this, as have others. I don't see how that make it better - everyone failed to see this coming (many health professionals saw it coming), so that makes it ok.
                “The problem was how the Chinese handled it,” said Scott McNabb, a former CDC epidemiologist. “What should have changed was the Chinese should have acknowledged it earlier and didn’t.”
                That's what
                - She

                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                - Stephen R. Donaldson

                Comment


                • The primary difference between South Korea and Japan versus the USA is that South Korea and Japan organized nationally and rapidly and proactively implemented measures to control the spread immediately. The USA under Trump's leadership waited more than two months to respond tot coronavirus. He called the coronavirus pandemic a "hoax" and has made many false statements concerning the pandemic, and now proposes prematurally proposed ending many measures, because of his concerns over economics and not peoples lives.

                  Source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/22/politics/fact-check-trump-coronavirus-false-claims-march/index.html



                  Trump made 33 false claims about the coronavirus crisis in the first two weeks of March

                  Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump began March with a barrage of false claims about the coronavirus pandemic -- understating the extent of the crisis, overstating the availability of tests, inaccurately blaming his predecessor and wrongly insisting that the crisis was unforeseen.

                  Trump made 50 false claims from March 2 through March 8, then 21 false claims from March 9 through March 15. Of those 71 false claims, 33 were related to the coronavirus. That is on top of some additional misleading claims from Trump about the coronavirus (we only count the false claims here), plus some false and misleading claims from members of his administration.

                  Trump is now averaging about 57 false claims per week since we started counting at CNN on July 8, 2019. From that date through March 15, he has made 2,062 false claims in all.

                  The most egregious false claim: The availability of coronavirus tests
                  On March 6, as doctors and health officials around the country were reporting a shortage of coronavirus tests, Trump said, "Anybody that wants a test can get a test. That's what the bottom line is."

                  In reality, Americans needed authorization from a doctor to get tested -- and even many people who did have a doctor's order could not get access.
                  This was Trump deceiving the country about one of the most critical problems of the crisis.

                  The most revealing false claim: Trade with Europe
                  Trump is serially reluctant to admit error, even trivial slips he makes while reading prepared speeches. Instead of correcting himself, he usually pretends that he has not slipped at all.

                  During his Oval Office address to the nation about the coronavirus on March 11, Trump, speaking from a script, announced that he was imposing restrictions on travel from Europe -- and then added that "these prohibitions will not only apply to the tremendous amount of trade and cargo, but various other things as we get approval. Anything coming from Europe to the United States is what we are discussing."

                  As he was forced to explain on Twitter after the speech, he was not actually banning trade and cargo from Europe.
                  So what happened? The usual, according to reporting from The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. Trump's speech said the prohibitions would not apply to trade and cargo; Trump accidentally added the word "only," reversing the meaning; Trump plowed ahead as usual.
                  The most absurd false claim: Handshakes in India

                  Trump is regularly willing to make false claims that can be disproven using widely available video footage.

                  While meeting with the prime minister of Ireland on March 12, Trump was asked whether he was fine shaking hands with foreign prime ministers. Trump said they hadn't shaken hands that day -- then added, "You know, I just got back from India, and I didn't shake any hands there."

                  An Indian news website promptly published a photo gallery of seven Trump handshakes during his trip. The coronavirus 'Control' of the coronavirus "This is a very contagious -- this is a very contagious virus. It's incredible. But it's something that we have tremendous control of." -- March 15 coronavirus press conference

                  Facts First: Experts said the US did not have the virus even close to under control. Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said at this same briefing after Trump left the room: "The worst is, yes, ahead for us. It is how we respond to that challenge that's going to determine what the ultimate end point is going to be. We have a very, very critical point now."

                  Trump claimed the next day that he had not meant the virus was under control -- that he had meant "we are doing a very good job within the confines of what we're dealing with." But he had repeatedly made clear on previous occasions that he was talking about the virus when he spoke of "control." He said in late January, soon after the US announced its first confirmed case, that "we have it totally under control." He said in late February, when the number of confirmed US cases was in the low dozens, that "we have it very much under control in this country."

                  Expectations of the pandemic
                  "...but we're having to fix a problem that, four weeks ago, nobody ever thought would be a problem." -- March 11 exchange with reporters at coronavirus meeting with bankers
                  Facts First: The US intelligence community, public health experts and officials in Trump's own administration had warned for years that the country was at risk from a pandemic. Some of the warnings specifically mentioned the possibility of a coronavirus pandemic. And when this particular coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, was identified in China in early January, health experts quickly cautioned it could be a major problem around the world.

                  "This was foreseeable, and foreseen, weeks and months ago, and only now is the White House coming out of denial and heading straight into saying it could not have been foreseen," Harvard University epidemiology professor Marc Lipsitch, director of Harvard's Center for Communicable Disease Dynamics, said on Sunday.

                  "Almost two months ago, experts were saying that the new virus in Wuhan was potentially a global threat," Lipsitch said in an email. "One month ago, experts were saying that it was likely to be pandemic, and the White House's response was that this was under control, despite the fact that the US's lack of testing was demonstrably giving a false picture of the extent of infection."

                  Obama and coronavirus testing Trump claimed twice that he had reversed an Obama-era decision that had impeded testing for the coronavirus. On the first occasion, Trump said, "The Obama administration made a decision on testing that turned out to be very detrimental to what we're doing. And we undid that decision a few days ago so that the testing can take place in a much more accurate and rapid fashion. That was a decision we disagreed with."

                  Facts First: There is no regulation from President Barack Obama that impeded coronavirus testing. The Obama administration did put forward a draft proposal related to lab testing, but it was never implemented. When asked what Obama administration decision Trump might be referring to, Peter Kyriacopoulos, chief policy officer at the Association of Public Health Laboratories, said: "We aren't sure what rule is being referenced."

                  Dr. Joshua Sharfstein, who was principal deputy commissioner of the FDA under Obama and is now professor of the practice at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, said, "There wasn't a policy that was put into place that inhibited them. There was no Obama policy they were reversing."
                  The availability of coronavirus tests

                  "Anybody that wants a test can get a test. That's what the bottom line is." And: "Anybody right now and yesterday — anybody that needs a test gets a test. We — they're there. They have the tests. And the tests are beautiful. Anybody that needs a test gets a test." -- March 6 exchange with reporters after tour of the Centers for Disease Control of Prevention.

                  Facts First: That simply wasn't true. There were an insufficient number of tests available, as Vice President Mike Pence acknowledged the day prior, and Americans could not get tested simply because they wanted to get tested. "You may not get a test unless a doctor or public health official prescribes a test," Azar said the day after Trump's remark -- and even some of the people whose doctors wanted them to be tested were not able to obtain a test. (Azar claimed Trump was using "shorthand" for the fact that "we as regulators, or as those shipping the test, are not restricting who can get tested.")
                  Coronavirus testing.

                  Trump was asked about a case in which a doctor in Houston reported being unable to obtain permission to get a patient tested despite the patient having "symptoms of something" and having tested negative for the flu.

                  Trump responded that this was a mere "one case" and that "frankly, the testing has been going very smooth." He also claimed: "If you go to the right agency, if you go to the right area, you get the test." -- March 12 exchange with reporters before meeting with Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar

                  Facts First: It was simply not true that testing had been going smoothly or that, as Trump suggested, it was simple to get a test by contacting the proper authorities.
                  Health officials in states around the country continued to report a shortage of tests and other problems. Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told Congress the same day: "The system does not -- is not really geared to what we need right now ... that is a failing. It is a failing, let's admit it."
                  Dr. Fauci said, "The idea of anybody getting it easily the way people in other countr(ies) are doing it: we're not set up for that. Do I think we should be? Yes. But we're not."
                  You can read a full fact check here.
                  The timeline
                  "We got hit with the virus, really, three weeks ago, if you think about it, I guess. That's when we first started, really, to see, you know, some possible effects." -- March 5 Fox News town hall in Scranton, Pennsylvania
                  Facts First: The US had its first confirmed case of the coronavirus on January 21, more than six weeks before Trump spoke here, so it's not true that the US had not really seen even "some possible effects" until three weeks ago.

                  People's knowledge of the number of flu deaths
                  "You know, three, four weeks ago, I said, 'Well, how many people die a year from the flu?' And, in this country, I think last year was 36- or 37,000 people. And I'm saying, 'Wow, nobody knew that information.'" -- March 2 exchange with reporters at coronavirus meeting with pharmaceutical companies
                  "So when you lose 27,000 people a year, nobody knew that. I didn't know that." -- March 2 campaign rally in Charlotte, North Carolina

                  Facts First: Trump might not have known the number of annual flu deaths in the US, but that doesn't mean "nobody" else did. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention publishes annual estimates on its website.
                  The CDC estimates that between 12,000 and 61,000 people have died in the US in each flu season between 2010-2011 and 2018-2019; its preliminary figure for 2018-2019 is 34,157 deaths.
                  Flu deaths in 1990
                  Speaking about the flu, Trump said, "I think we went as high as 100,000 people died in 1990, if you can believe that." -- March 4 interview with Fox News' Sean Hannity
                  "...when I was hearing the amount of people that died with flu, I was shocked to hear it. Anywhere from 27,000 to 70,000 or 77,000. And I guess they said, in 1990, that was in particular very bad; it was higher than that." -- March 6 exchange with reporters after tour of the Centers for Disease Control of Prevention
                  Facts First: While the 1989-1990 flu season was considered bad at the time -- the CDC declared that it was an epidemic -- Trump greatly overstated the number of deaths. A CDC analysis in 2010 estimated that there were 26,582 deaths from the seasonal flu in 1989-1990. (The same analysis found that this number of deaths was exceeded in nine of the 17 subsequent flu seasons through 2006-2007.)

                  Polling on Trump and the coronavirus
                  "Gallup just gave us the highest rating ever for the way we are handling the CoronaVirus situation." -- March 5 tweet
                  "Our response is one of the best, with fast action of border closings & a 78% Approval Rating, the highest on record." -- March 12 tweet

                  Facts First: Trump does not have a "78% approval rating" for his handling of the coronavirus, nor "the highest rating ever" for a president's handling of an outbreak.
                  Trump may have been wrongly describing a Gallup poll conducted in early-to-mid-February -- before there were any reported US deaths from the coronavirus -- that found 77% of respondents had confidence in the federal government to handle a coronavirus outbreak. But that poll asked about confidence in the government's future acts, not about approval of its actual work to date. It also did not ask about Trump in particular.

                  Polls actually asking about people's approval of Trump's handling of the virus situation at the time found that his approval rating is much lower than 78%. In an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll conducted March 11-13, 45% of registered voters approved of his handling of the coronavirus, while 51% disapproved. A Quinnipiac University poll conducted March 5-8 found that 43% of registered voters approved, 49% disapproved. (Some subsequent polls found Trump's coronavirus-related approval above 50%.) Conversely, a CNN poll taken in October and November 2009 found that 57% approved of Barack Obama's handling of the H1N1 flu pandemic.

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  The lies are to much to fit in the limits of posting. You can read the rest of the article for a good bedtime horror story. Not for children they need the sleep. The first patient in South Korea and the USA occured on the same day in January.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-...-found-in-2019

                    The United States was ranked the best-prepared country in the world to handle a pandemic in late 2019 by the Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI) and the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security (JHCHS) -- an assessment seemingly at odds with claims by Democrats that the Trump administration left the country vulnerable to the ongoing coronavirus outbreak.
                    That's what
                    - She

                    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                    - Stephen R. Donaldson

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                      https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-...-found-in-2019

                      The United States was ranked the best-prepared country in the world to handle a pandemic in late 2019 by the Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI) and the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security (JHCHS) -- an assessment seemingly at odds with claims by Democrats that the Trump administration left the country vulnerable to the ongoing coronavirus outbreak.
                      This is FOX News. I gave the facts concerning the actual response and results in comparing South Korea and Japan versus the USA, and Trump's lies and ridicule of the Pandemic.

                      Please respond to the facts.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                        This is FOX News. I gave the facts concerning the actual response and results in comparing South Korea and Japan versus the USA, and Trump's lies and ridicule of the Pandemic.

                        Please respond to the facts.
                        Please stop poisoning the well and address the fact that the US had the highest score on best-prepared country in the world to handle a pandemic in late 2019
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        - Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                          Please stop poisoning the well and address the fact that the US had the highest score on best-prepared country in the world to handle a pandemic in late 2019
                          Polls do not compete with facts.

                          This is FOX News. I gave the facts concerning the actual response and results in comparing South Korea and Japan versus the USA, and Trump's lies and ridicule of the Pandemic.

                          Please respond to the facts.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            This is FOX News.
                            And you posted an article from the disreputable CNN that uses every dirty trick in the book to twist Trump's statements in order to call them "lies".
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • There is no doubt about where Trump stands.

                              https://youtu.be/ch7_t2Ri2Zg
                              Rewind the tape.

                              The world is being changed by this virus. It might never be the same again.

                              Trump has failed, spectacularly, to grasp the scale of the problem, even after watching other countries struggle. He is in denial. He is not the man for this job, and he should step aside.
                              Last edited by firstfloor; 03-24-2020, 06:01 PM.
                              “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                              “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                              “not all there” - you know who you are

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                And you posted an article from the disreputable CNN that uses every dirty trick in the book to twist Trump's statements in order to call them "lies".
                                They are direct and complete quotes by Donald Trump and on film.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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