Donald Trump and the Coronavirus

[Mountain Man]

You claimed that: "I noticed you flat ignored that as late as Jan 14th, the WHO was reporting that the virus wasn’t spreading human to human. That was a lie, they had to have known for months before that it was, now let’s try this again, did any response plan include a country flat out lying to the entire world about a new disease spreading in country? Yes or no? In all likelihood, the virus was already here before January and was likely already starting to spread person to person. Nobody knew there was a problem because nobody was told in the early stages there was a problem."

You have no evidence for that timeframe. None.

You guys really don't keep up with the news, do you? On January 14th, the WHO posted on Twitter:

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳.

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/12170...on-coronavirus

[shunyadragon]

I thought that China's lies and the WHO covering for them was common knowledge at this point.

The reason for the WHO’s failure to properly act to contain the outbreak, and its repeated issuing of inaccurate and bad advice, is not merely the result of incompetence. Rather, the malfeasance is the direct result of the CCP deliberately buying out WHO’s leadership, with tragic consequences.

Experts have pinned the virus as starting possibly as early as October, months before the CCP alerted the world about the risks posed by the deadly disease. Rather than addressing the issue, China arrested journalists and doctors who tried to sound the alarm. In addition, the “People’s Republic” blocked information on social media and removed all news stories that attempted to report accurate infection numbers. The end result of this was preventable suffering, as countries were unable to take the urgent action needed to respond.

Yet through all the CCP’s obfuscation and ensigning preventable deaths, the WHO consistently praised the CCP for its “transparency” and “leadership,” saying its actions were “making us safer.” To the incredulity of health professionals around the world when finally alerted to the seriousness of the threat in January, the WHO refused to declare it a public health emergency. It took until February 10 for the WHO to even send an advance party to China.

At the same time WHO representatives gushed in praise of the regime’s response, noting the “Chinese people feel protected.” The WHO continues to lavishly praise China as they continued to downplay the threat of the coronavirus, taking months to classify it finally as a pandemic because that “might spook the world further.”

...

Unfortunately, few are willing to accept the cynical truth that the WHO has let funding priorities and the personal ambitions of its leadership get in the way of sound public policy. As with so many things, an understanding can be found by following the money.

China worked “tirelessly behind the scenes” in lobbing to ensure the election of Tedros, who previously served in the government of the Marxist and violently repressive Ethiopian People’s Revolutionary Democratic Front. This gruesome movement was responsible for gross human right abuses, such as torture, repression, and electoral fraud. During his tenure as health minister, Tedros was most known to have covered up three cholera outbreaks.

So why did China push so hard for Tedros? The ex-revolutionary’s tenure is merely part of a broader CCP strategy to take over international organizations to “reshape the international system to accommodate its political and economic interests…In service of this strategy, [China] has consistently sought to trade financial incentives for votes, offering bribes and cancelling debt for countries that support them.”

https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/17...eadly-results/

It is a given that China lied big time.

Not common knowledge at all. It is accepted that China lied big time. Nothing here documents the WHO response. I cited the actual documented chronology of the WHO communications.

Absolutely nothing here describes WHO claiming the coronavirus was not human to human contagious. Please cite where WHO lavished praise on the Chinese response. This news report does not cite actual WHO documents nor Tweets.

I cited the actual chronology of WHO concerning the virus. China did communicate to WHO the actual human to human transmission of the virus. This is documented.

Still waiting. . .

[Roy]

And how much did they produce by January 1942 or had they even started to produce a single plane by the one month after war was declared? It takes time to retool and retrain a factory to start spitting out a whole new product. The US is known to have some or the largest resources of any country, it is also known that it took over a year for US wartime production to start moving along. This isn’t an opinion, but an established fact that can be confirmed just by checking US production from 1941 to 1945.

I ask again, how many planes were produced one month after war was declared? It took nearly a year for US production to start to top axis production, with new planes and ships not entering major service until around the 6 month later mark. With the US’s first offensive action not starting till August 1942, nearly 9 months after war was declared. Like I said, it’s not instant.

Complete bollocks. The US ramped up their tank and aircraft production in 1940 and 1941 in response to both Allied requests and internal plans, well before war was declared on the US.

Here's one source:

Source: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/I/AAF-I-4.html

These speed-up measures had begun with the initial appropriations for Air Corps expansion and had been intensified as U.S. and British demands increased. The 1939 Air Corps objective of 5,500 planes was soon raised to 10,000. Then on 16 May 1940, with the extension of the war in western Europe, the President called for an annual output of 50,000 aircraft and a total Army and Navy strength of the same number of planes; approved figures provided 36,500 for the Army, 13,500 for the Navy.17 The American aircraft industry was asked, in essence, to expand from its normal capacity of some 2,000 planes a year to more than 4,000 a month. Aircraft production in 1940 showed an increase of 250 per cent over that of the previous year.18 The chief gains, both in planes manufactured and in the rate of acceleration, came in the latter half of the year, when the fall of France and the Battle of Britain lent a grim incentive to American efforts. By the end of September 1940, contracts were outstanding for 16,649 Army aircraft, of which 9,122 were tactical.19 In the second half of that year, 3,770 military aircraft were accepted by all users; in 1941, the total accepted was 19,428.

© Copyright Original Source

So in the month after war was declared, the US produced between 1500 and 2000 military aircraft.

Except in Lilpix World^TM, where lend-lease never happened, WWII didn't start until 1941 and the US government had to go straight from "no need to worry everything will be fine" to "OMG build aircraft now" overnight.

[carpedm9587]

And how much did they produce by January 1942 or had they even started to produce a single plane by the one month after war was declared? It takes time to retool and retrain a factory to start spitting out a whole new product. The US is known to have some or the largest resources of any country, it is also known that it took over a year for US wartime production to start moving along. This isn’t an opinion, but an established fact that can be confirmed just by checking US production from 1941 to 1945.

I ask again, how many planes were produced one month after war was declared? It took nearly a year for US production to start to top axis production, with new planes and ships not entering major service until around the 6 month later mark. With the US’s first offensive action not starting till August 1942, nearly 9 months after war was declared. Like I said, it’s not instant.

Thank decades of moving factories overseas, actions that took place over Democrat and Republicans alike.

They did, and our politicians and business leaders sold us down the river by moving key manufacturing over to China. China is our enemy that has been working at destroying us from within, when will you wake up to this fact?

This is going down the usual rathole. Feel free to declare the win and swing the "carpe handwaving" flag...

[Mountain Man]

Absolutely nothing here describes WHO claiming the coronavirus was not human to human contagious. Please cite where WHO lavished praise on the Chinese response. This news report does not cite actual WHO documents nor Tweets.

I guess you missed this post:

You guys really don't keep up with the news, do you? On January 14th, the WHO posted on Twitter:

Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳.

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/12170...on-coronavirus

As for the WHO praising China, that, too, is easy to find and I'm again surprised that it's not common knowledge:

Sitting alongside Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing's Great Hall of the People, World Health Organization director general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus was effusive in his praise of the country's response to the coronavirus crisis.

"We appreciate the seriousness with which China is taking this outbreak, especially the commitment from top leadership, and the transparency they have demonstrated," Tedros said, in comments that would be repeatedly quoted in China's state media for weeks.

...

The WHO's praise of China's response have led critics to question the relationship between the two entities. The UN agency relied on funding and the cooperation of members to function, giving wealthy member states like China considerable influence. Perhaps one of the most overt examples of China's sway over the WHO is its success in blocking Taiwan's access to the body, a position that could have very real consequences for the Taiwanese people if the virus takes hold there.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/14/asia/...hnk/index.html

World Health Organization (WHO) Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi on Tuesday and expressed confidence in the measures China has taken to control the spread of the Wuhan coronavirus.

Ghebreyesus said his organization is advising foreign countries that evacuating their citizens from Wuhan and the surrounding Hubei province is unnecessary. Chinese state media eagerly promoted his remarks in a bid to control the political fallout from the outbreak.

https://www.breitbart.com/national-s...irus-outbreak/

But you guys go ahead and keep your ignorant heads in the sand. I guess that works for you.

[lilpixieofterror]

You claimed that: "I noticed you flat ignored that as late as Jan 14th, the WHO was reporting that the virus wasn’t spreading human to human. That was a lie, they had to have known for months before that it was, now let’s try this again, did any response plan include a country flat out lying to the entire world about a new disease spreading in country? Yes or no? In all likelihood, the virus was already here before January and was likely already starting to spread person to person. Nobody knew there was a problem because nobody was told in the early stages there was a problem."

Mr Nitpick,

It was a lie idiot. Now rather they were simply repeating the lie or simply playing the part of the fool, is another question entirely. You do understand that, don’t you?

You have no evidence for that timeframe. None.
So again no evidence. "The lilpix shuffle".

I said,

“Some reports suggest...”

And since China has lied about everything and destroyed evidence, why take their timeline, at face value? Got a reason, Roy the unwitting fool?

You've now had several chances to either explain how the WHO knew about human-to-human transmission of Covid-19 months before Jan 14th or admit your mistake, but have chosen diversions and insults instead.

Adios.

Poor Mr Nitpick, still picking nits and still too stupid to understand that repeating a lie and being a liar are two different things. I never accused the WHO of lying, I accused them of repeating lies. An established fact or is Mr Nitpick too dumb to spot the subtle difference?

[lilpixieofterror]

It is a given that China lied big time.

Not common knowledge at all. It is accepted that China lied big time. Nothing here documents the WHO response. I cited the actual documented chronology of the WHO communications.

Absolutely nothing here describes WHO claiming the coronavirus was not human to human contagious. Please cite where WHO lavished praise on the Chinese response. This news report does not cite actual WHO documents nor Tweets.

I cited the actual chronology of WHO concerning the virus. China did communicate to WHO the actual human to human transmission of the virus. This is documented.

Still waiting. . .

Time to put the nail in your casket:

https://mobile.twitter.com/WHO/statu...on-coronavirus

I await your apology.

[lilpixieofterror]

Complete bollocks. The US ramped up their tank and aircraft production in 1940 and 1941 in response to both Allied requests and internal plans, well before war was declared on the US.

Here's one source:

Source: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/I/AAF-I-4.html

These speed-up measures had begun with the initial appropriations for Air Corps expansion and had been intensified as U.S. and British demands increased. The 1939 Air Corps objective of 5,500 planes was soon raised to 10,000. Then on 16 May 1940, with the extension of the war in western Europe, the President called for an annual output of 50,000 aircraft and a total Army and Navy strength of the same number of planes; approved figures provided 36,500 for the Army, 13,500 for the Navy.17 The American aircraft industry was asked, in essence, to expand from its normal capacity of some 2,000 planes a year to more than 4,000 a month. Aircraft production in 1940 showed an increase of 250 per cent over that of the previous year.18 The chief gains, both in planes manufactured and in the rate of acceleration, came in the latter half of the year, when the fall of France and the Battle of Britain lent a grim incentive to American efforts. By the end of September 1940, contracts were outstanding for 16,649 Army aircraft, of which 9,122 were tactical.19 In the second half of that year, 3,770 military aircraft were accepted by all users; in 1941, the total accepted was 19,428.

© Copyright Original Source

So in the month after war was declared, the US produced between 1500 and 2000 military aircraft.

Except in Lilpix World^TM, where lend-lease never happened, WWII didn't start until 1941 and the US government had to go straight from "no need to worry everything will be fine" to "OMG build aircraft now" overnight.

And did those tanks show up, over night or within a month?

When did the US formally declare war?

Leave it up to Mr Nitpick, to pick nits and lose the argument.

[carpedm9587]

So I've been digging into the whole WHO/China thing, since it seems to be such a focus. Based on what I've read and digested, I come to the following conclusions:

• China hid information about the coronavirus and is most likely still hiding information about it.
• China used (and uses) its influence as a global power to influence the WHO. Nothing odd there - all bodies with power seek to exert their influence.
• The WHO's February announcement was factual - they posted that China was reporting no human-to-human transfer, which is indeed what China was reporting. The human-to-human transfer proved to be wrong.
• The U.S. intelligence community was (and still is) warning Trump about China's misleading information beginning in January of this year. Trump largely ignored it and continued to downplay the pandemic, even after it was declared an international emergency, until about 2 weeks ago, a full two months after our first domestic case.
• The reporting from the middle and left news outlets generally focuses on China's influence over the WHO due to their global leadership position.
• The reporting from the right news outlets generally casts the entire thing in a nefarious light and continually uses the issue to exonerate Trump from accusations about poor crisis management.
• The WHO has been fawning over both the U.S. (praising Trump's efforts) and China (praising Xi's efforts) throughout this event.

I conclude that it would be better for all if the WHO had more independence, but their funding has to come from somewhere and whoever controls the majority of the purse strings will have out-sized influence. That's the way things work. I see no reason to think the WHO is any more or less vulnerable to that dynamic than any other political body. It's hard to slap the hand that feeds you.

Further, it seems somewhat odd to me to spend a lot of time on how other countries have out-sized influence in global bodies when the person currently occupying the Oval Office has been systematically withdrawing us from the global stage, restricting the flow of money to international bodies, and souring our relationships with historical allies. What on earth did you THINK was going to happen? As predicted, countries like China are gaining influence and exerting that influence in their own self-interest, as we have done for years.

If the U.S. is going to take it's ball and go home, it is in no position to complain when the next most prominent player changes the rules of the game.

We face two realities in the U.S. that complicate this pandemic: the outsourcing of so much of our manufacturing capability over the years, and our national withdrawal from (and reaction to) "globalism."

[lilpixieofterror]

This is going down the usual rathole. Feel free to declare the win and swing the "carpe handwaving" flag...

You brought it up, not I. I take it you admit to your mistakes and refuse to address any of it. Figures...

[lilpixieofterror]

So I've been digging into the whole WHO/China thing, since it seems to be such a focus. Based on what I've read and digested, I come to the following conclusions:

• China hid information about the coronavirus and is most likely still hiding information about it.
• China used (and uses) its influence as a global power to influence the WHO. Nothing odd there - all bodies with power seek to exert their influence.
• The WHO's February announcement was factual - they posted that China was reporting no human-to-human transfer, which is indeed what China was reporting. The human-to-human transfer proved to be wrong.
• The U.S. intelligence community was (and still is) warning Trump about China's misleading information beginning in January of this year.
• The reporting from the middle and left news outlets generally focuses on China's influence over the WHO due to their global leadership position.
• The reporting from the right news outlets generally casts the entire thing in a nefarious light and continually uses the issue to exonerate Trump from accusations about poor crisis management
• The WHO has been fawning over both the U.S. (praising Trump's efforts) and China (praising Xi's efforts) throughout this event.

I conclude that it would be better for all if the WHO had more independence, but their funding has to come from somewhere and whoever controls the majority of the purse strings will have out-sized influence. That's the way things work. I see no reason to think the WHO is any more or less vulnerable to that dynamic than any other political body.

Further, it seems somewhat odd to me to spend a lot of time on how other countries have out-sized influence in global bodies when the person currently occupying the Oval Office has been systematically withdrawing us from the global stage, restricting the flow of money to international bodies, and souring our relationships with historical allies. What on earth did you THINK was going to happen? As predicted, countries like China are gaining influence and exerting that influence in their own self-interest, as we have done for years.

If the U.S. is going to take it's ball and go home, it is in no position to complain when the next most prominent player changes the rules of the game.

I see you’ve flat ignored my point where the US has been shifting key manufacturing over to China, but if you want to blame Trump, for what has been going on for 40 years, go for it. This should serve as a wake up call to what happens when you hand over your manufacturing base to a hostel power, but you’re welcome to ignore that, to your hearts content.

[Mountain Man]

[*]The U.S. intelligence community was (and still is) warning Trump about China's misleading information beginning in January of this year. Trump largely ignored it and continued to downplay the pandemic, even after it was declared an international emergency, until about 2 weeks ago, a full two months after our first domestic case.

January, huh? That was around the time that Trump issued Chinese travel restrictions and encouraged US citizens to come home, isn't it? Of course liberals condemned Trump's decision as racist, but on the flipside, Dr. Fauci has praised the Trump administration for taking action "very, very early" and says that Trump's quick decision slowed the virus's early spread in the United States and bought us significant valuable time.

Oh, right, but we should only listen to the experts when they say something that can be twisted to make Trump look bad.

[carpedm9587]

I see you’ve flat ignored my point where the US has been shifting key manufacturing over to China, but if you want to blame Trump, for what has been going on for 40 years, go for it. This should serve as a wake up call to what happens when you hand over your manufacturing base to a hostel power, but you’re welcome to ignore that, to your hearts content.

I'm going to assume you simply missed this part of the post. I think I added it immediately after my initial post, so it is possible you posted in that interval:

We face two realities in the U.S. that complicate this pandemic: the outsourcing of so much of our manufacturing capability over the years, and our national withdrawal from (and reaction to) "globalism."

[lilpixieofterror]

I'm going to assume you simply missed this part of the post. I think I added it immediately after my initial post, so it is possible you posted in that interval:

We face two realities in the U.S. that complicate this pandemic: the outsourcing of so much of our manufacturing capability over the years, and our national withdrawal from (and reaction to) "globalism."

So why are you blaming Trump, for something that has been ongoing for the past 40 years?

[rogue06]

So why are you blaming Trump, for something that has been ongoing for the past 40 years?

Same reason they blamed Trump for "breaking up families" when they try to enter the country illegally when that was what they've been doing for years.

OMB*







































* ORANGE MAN BAD!