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Thread: Communion, the Long-Distance Edition

  1. #41
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Poking around a bit, I found this:
    Source: Eucharistic Bread: Leavened or Unleavened?


    In the Bible, unleavened bread is called “unleavened bread,” whereas leavened bread is simply called “bread.” The Jews at that time would have understood this as would have the early Christians. It says that “He took bread,” meaning leavened bread; and the Christians, being first instructed by the Apostles and then reading in the Gospels some time later, implemented this.

    At the Mystical Supper, it is obvious that our Lord was changing things, to tie the Passover meal with its fulfillment, the Eucharist. One of those changes, obviously, was using leavened bread instead of unleavened, or at least leavened in addition to unleavened. The world was empty and devoid of grace before Christ, as is symbolized by the flatness of the unleavened bread, but later filled with the glory of His Resurrection, as is symbolized by the leavened bread. Christ made the change, and the Church followed through on it.

    The word for unleavened bread in Greek is AZYMOS it is used in the Greek New Testament nine times: Mt.26:17; Mk.14:1,12; Lk.22:1,7;Ac.12:3; 20:6; 1Cor.5:7,8.

    The word for leavened bread is ARTOS it is used 97 times in the Greek New Testament.

    The passages where they are relevant for the Mystical Supper are;

    Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said,

    “Take, eat; this is my body.”

    – Mt. 26:26; Mk.14:22; Lk.22:19;24:30,35; 1 Cor.10:16,17 (twice);11:26,27,28.

    In all these places, the writers never say Jesus took AZYMOS and blessed it, they write that Jesus took ARTOS, common ordinary leavened bread.

    © Copyright Original Source



    It appears that even in the West, unleavened bread was not used prior to the 8th century, and did not become universal until the 11th century.
    It was the passover meal and Jews don't eat leavened bread during passover.

    Why don’t Jews eat leavened bread during Passover?

    Not featured during the meal are leavened foods made of grain known as “chametz.” Chametz is prohibited during Passover, so you won’t find any pasta, cookies, bread or cereal at the seder. (More traditional Jews will completely clean out any foods containing chametz from their home.)

    This has to do with the story of Passover: After the killing of the first born, the Pharaoh agreed to let the Israelites go. But in their haste to leave Egypt, the Israelites could not let their bread rise and so they brought unleavened bread. This specific dietary requirement is spelled out in Exodus 12:14, “You shall eat nothing leavened; in all your dwelling places you shall eat unleavened bread.”

    To commemorate this, Jews do not eat leavened bread for eight days.
    https://time.com/5188494/passover-history-traditions/

  2. Amen mossrose amen'd this post.
  3. #42
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    It was the passover meal and Jews don't eat leavened bread during passover.

    Why don’t Jews eat leavened bread during Passover?

    Not featured during the meal are leavened foods made of grain known as “chametz.” Chametz is prohibited during Passover, so you won’t find any pasta, cookies, bread or cereal at the seder. (More traditional Jews will completely clean out any foods containing chametz from their home.)

    This has to do with the story of Passover: After the killing of the first born, the Pharaoh agreed to let the Israelites go. But in their haste to leave Egypt, the Israelites could not let their bread rise and so they brought unleavened bread. This specific dietary requirement is spelled out in Exodus 12:14, “You shall eat nothing leavened; in all your dwelling places you shall eat unleavened bread.”

    To commemorate this, Jews do not eat leavened bread for eight days.
    https://time.com/5188494/passover-history-traditions/
    I know that, the fathers of the Church knew that, and the portion of the article I quoted addresses that. Please do me the courtesy of reading what I posted and addressing that in your response, okay? Your post doesn't even manage to rise to the level of a handwave.
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  4. #43
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    I know that, the fathers of the Church knew that, and the portion of the article I quoted addresses that. Please do me the courtesy of reading what I posted and addressing that in your response, okay? Your post doesn't even manage to rise to the level of a handwave.
    I did read it. the bit

    At the Mystical Supper, it is obvious that our Lord was changing things, to tie the Passover meal with its fulfillment, the Eucharist. One of those changes, obviously, was using leavened bread instead of unleavened, or at least leavened in addition to unleavened. The world was empty and devoid of grace before Christ, as is symbolized by the flatness of the unleavened bread, but later filled with the glory of His Resurrection, as is symbolized by the leavened bread. Christ made the change, and the Church followed through on it.

    seems like a rationalization. Especially the bit about trying to explain Christ's motivation.

    https://www.studylight.org/lexicons/greek/740.html
    Artos:

    food composed of flour mixed with water and baked
    the Israelites made it in the form of an oblong or round cake, as thick as one's thumb, and as large as a plate or platter hence it was not to be cut but broken
    loaves were consecrated to the Lord
    of the bread used at the love-feasts and at the Lord's Table

    And Azymos

    unfermented, free from leaven or yeast

    of the unleavened loaves used in the paschal feast of the Jews
    metaph. free from faults or the "leaven of iniquity"
    --------

    Azymos just means "unleavened" not "unleavened bread"

    the word bread is inserted for clarity, it isn't in the greek

    https://www.studylight.org/interline....html?lang=grk

    ScreenHunter_.jpg

    try not to be so snide next time. Thanks

    food of any kind
    Last edited by Sparko; 03-26-2020 at 12:32 PM.

  5. #44
    43rd Mojave Summer DesertBerean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertBerean View Post
    Hmm. We have always have communion on the first Sunday of each month. We have been, for maybe three or four years now, using the prefilled communion cups with included dry bread (not crackers) or wafers. I was wondering how well that would work with us being locked down. I'll float this idea this by the others.
    We're set to have our regular communion...the cups are prepackaged for people to take to their homes and we will celebrate by FB on Sunday morning.

  6. #45
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertBerean View Post
    We're set to have our regular communion...the cups are prepackaged for people to take to their homes and we will celebrate by FB on Sunday morning.
    We're providing the bread and suggesting they buy their own grape juice or wine - my ministry coordinator baked a whole bunch of matzo.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  7. Amen DesertBerean amen'd this post.

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