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Thread: Islam: Allah has no son

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    Islam: Allah has no son

    They say: "Allah hath begotten a son" :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him. To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: "Be," and it is. Surah 2:116-117

    And they make the jinn associates with Allah, while He created them, and they falsely attribute to Him sons and daughters without knowledge; glory be to Him, and highly exalted is He above what they ascribe (to Him). Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things. S. 6:100-101 Shakir

    The truth is that - exalted be the Majesty of our Lord - HE has taken unto Himself neither wife nor son, S. 72:3 Sher Ali

    And they say: "The Most Beneficent (Allaah) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) [as the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son ['Isa (Christ)], and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels, etc.)]." (Maryam 19:8]

    Commentary from my Qur'an:

    "Begetting a son is a physical act depending on the needs of men's animal nature. God Most High is independent of all needs, and it is derogatory to Him to attribute such an act to Him. It is merely a relic of pagan and anthropomorphic materialist superstitions."

    "It is a derogation from the glory of God in fact it is blasphemy to say that God begets sons, like a man or an animal. The Christian doctrine is here emphatically repudiated. If words have any meaning, it would mean an attribution to God of a material nature, and of the lower animal functions of sex."

    I still run into Muslims who believe Christians believe that God had sex with Mary and out popped a little God named Jesus.

    One Muslim said: “Well, what do you think “the Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore, the holy One to be born will be called the Son of God” means?

    What do you make of this?

    Thanks.

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    'allah' is actually that black stone set in the corner of the kabaa inMecca that muslims bow and pray to 5 times a day and atempt to kiss.
    The one and only REAL GOD YAHWEH of the Bible - said: The LORD Speaks to Elijah at Horeb
    …17Then Jehu will put to death whoever escapes the sword of Hazael, and Elisha will put to death whoever escapes the sword of Jehu. 18Nevertheless, I have reserved seven thousand in Israel— all whose knees have not bowed to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.”

    the stone in the kabaa is actually the idol stone that muhamed found and decided was his god.
    so as all muslims worship it they are going to be slaughtered when Jesus returns.

    Curiously lots of so-called Christians hate me for pointing this out!

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    Quote Originally Posted by XRose View Post
    'allah' is actually that black stone set in the corner of the kabaa inMecca that muslims bow and pray to 5 times a day and atempt to kiss.
    The one and only REAL GOD YAHWEH of the Bible - said: The LORD Speaks to Elijah at Horeb
    …17Then Jehu will put to death whoever escapes the sword of Hazael, and Elisha will put to death whoever escapes the sword of Jehu. 18Nevertheless, I have reserved seven thousand in Israel— all whose knees have not bowed to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.”

    the stone in the kabaa is actually the idol stone that muhamed found and decided was his god.
    so as all muslims worship it they are going to be slaughtered when Jesus returns.

    Curiously lots of so-called Christians hate me for pointing this out!
    While I can understand why you believe this, this isn't what Islam actually teaches. It's supposed to have been put in the Kaaba by Abraham and Ishmael. They don't believe it is Allah, even if Mohammed did kiss the stone.

    Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia: 'Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you." (Sahih al-Bukhari 2:667)

    Also, while Muslims currently pray towards Mecca, that wasn't always the case. According to the Koran it was actually Jerusalem that they originally faced while praying. This was changed pretty early on.

    Surah 2: 142-145(Yusuf Ali translation) The fools among the people will say: "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say: To God belong both east and West: He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight. Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Apostle a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Apostle from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by God. And never would God Make your faith of no effect. For God is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful. We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is God unmindful of what they do. Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other’s Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires, - then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong.

    So, while the ritual of the Kaaba and the black stone is definitely idolatrous, they don't believe the black stone is Allah. I can't find anything showing Mohammed believed that either. I think he was just so used to the ritual from his time before Islam that he kept doing it.

  4. Amen rogue06 amen'd this post.
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    It is as it claims, Christian3. The koran blatantly defames Jesus Christ as a "physical Son of God", the product of a sexual/biological union between the Almighty "and his wife"! Per 6/101 and 72/3 etc. Even we Christians do not subscribe to such misrepresention because it is not what the Gospel ("Injil") teaches (Jn.3:13).

    The term "Son of God" is not only found in the NT but also in the Old Testament. Adam, Jacob/Israel, David and even the Nephilim are called "Sons of God'. Common sense will tell anyone that these were NEVER biological sons at all, in any way..

    However, one-track minded and brainwashed Muslims blindly hold onto falsified misrepresentions like the verses/ayats above because the Koran makes a self - serving claim that it is the so-called word of God that they claim blindly & devoid of convincing evidence, to "be true" when the very opposite is true!

    The Koran conveniently forgets that in surah al-Baqarah (2)/215, it also uses the Arabic term "ibnu sabili" which translates "son of the road" and means a traveller, wayfarer or homeless person analogously, as it actually does contextually in 2/215! Did it ever mean that two roads copulated and produced a son of the road?!? Never, of course.

    These koranic verses only prove how it twists and misinterpretes the original and authentic Christian truths through misrepresentions.

    Christians do to Muslims a great favor when they bring these issues to attention and recover the authentic meaning for Muslims to correct themselves and the Koran's erroneous views and misrepresentions. Muslims should welcome such clarification as corrections to the Koran's shortcomings and fallacious mis-readings of the real facts in the Bible and the Gospel. We pray for more open minds and level headed discussions to prevail on the part of muslims who are honestly seeking for the truth. May the true and living God open their blinkered eyes.










    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    They say: "Allah hath begotten a son" :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him. To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: "Be," and it is. Surah 2:116-117

    And they make the jinn associates with Allah, while He created them, and they falsely attribute to Him sons and daughters without knowledge; glory be to Him, and highly exalted is He above what they ascribe (to Him). Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things. S. 6:100-101 Shakir

    The truth is that - exalted be the Majesty of our Lord - HE has taken unto Himself neither wife nor son, S. 72:3 Sher Ali

    And they say: "The Most Beneficent (Allaah) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) [as the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son ['Isa (Christ)], and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels, etc.)]." (Maryam 19:8]

    Commentary from my Qur'an:

    "Begetting a son is a physical act depending on the needs of men's animal nature. God Most High is independent of all needs, and it is derogatory to Him to attribute such an act to Him. It is merely a relic of pagan and anthropomorphic materialist superstitions."

    "It is a derogation from the glory of God in fact it is blasphemy to say that God begets sons, like a man or an animal. The Christian doctrine is here emphatically repudiated. If words have any meaning, it would mean an attribution to God of a material nature, and of the lower animal functions of sex."

    I still run into Muslims who believe Christians believe that God had sex with Mary and out popped a little God named Jesus.

    One Muslim said: “Well, what do you think “the Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore, the holy One to be born will be called the Son of God” means?

    What do you make of this?

    Thanks.

  6. Amen Christian3 amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
    It is as it claims, Christian3. The koran blatantly defames Jesus Christ as a "physical Son of God", the product of a sexual/biological union between the Almighty "and his wife"! Per 6/101 and 72/3 etc. Even we Christians do not subscribe to such misrepresention because it is not what the Gospel ("Injil") teaches (Jn.3:13).

    The term "Son of God" is not only found in the NT but also in the Old Testament. Adam, Jacob/Israel, David and even the Nephilim are called "Sons of God'. Common sense will tell anyone that these were NEVER biological sons at all, in any way..

    However, one-track minded and brainwashed Muslims blindly hold onto falsified misrepresentions like the verses/ayats above because the Koran makes a self - serving claim that it is the so-called word of God that they claim blindly & devoid of convincing evidence, to "be true" when the very opposite is true!

    The Koran conveniently forgets that in surah al-Baqarah (2)/215, it also uses the Arabic term "ibnu sabili" which translates "son of the road" and means a traveller, wayfarer or homeless person analogously, as it actually does contextually in 2/215! Did it ever mean that two roads copulated and produced a son of the road?!? Never, of course.

    These koranic verses only prove how it twists and misinterpretes the original and authentic Christian truths through misrepresentions.

    Christians do to Muslims a great favor when they bring these issues to attention and recover the authentic meaning for Muslims to correct themselves and the Koran's erroneous views and misrepresentions. Muslims should welcome such clarification as corrections to the Koran's shortcomings and fallacious mis-readings of the real facts in the Bible and the Gospel. We pray for more open minds and level headed discussions to prevail on the part of muslims who are honestly seeking for the truth. May the true and living God open their blinkered eyes.
    The bottom line is that the author of the Qur'an made a mistake in thinking Christians believe Jesus was the result of sex between God and Mary which means he is not all-knowing which means he is not the One True God.

    AND, the author of the Qur'an thought that the Trinity was three Gods and it looks like he thought the three Gods were Allah, Jesus and Mary, which is another mistake the One True God would not make.

    AND, Muslims claim that Muhammad is foretold in the Bible (I'm sure you know where) and none of them work when put into context.

  8. Amen Trucker amen'd this post.
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    Yes, that's exactly right. And it is shame for our muslim friends to just follow all that, blindly...



    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    The bottom line is that the author of the Qur'an made a mistake in thinking Christians believe Jesus was the result of sex between God and Mary which means he is not all-knowing which means he is not the One True God.

    AND, the author of the Qur'an thought that the Trinity was three Gods and it looks like he thought the three Gods were Allah, Jesus and Mary, which is another mistake the One True God would not make.

    AND, Muslims claim that Muhammad is foretold in the Bible (I'm sure you know where) and none of them work when put into context.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    The bottom line is that the author of the Qur'an made a mistake in thinking Christians believe Jesus was the result of sex between God and Mary which means he is not all-knowing which means he is not the One True God.
    Great comment! One of the very best [other than the Christian Scriptures, that is] reference books I've yet seen on this subject would be NOT THE SAME GOD by Sam Solomon with ATIF Debs. Available here:

    https://www.amazon.com/Not-Same-God-...s%2C157&sr=1-3

    [To the mods here: I have no intention of posting anything that is against the rules. Rules I really don't know anything about yet. I'm still trying to familiarize myself with this site.]

    The best info I have been able to obtain on Sam Solomon is that he was a professor of Sharia for 16 years or so before he converted to Christianity. Sam thoroughly discredits the "We all worship the same God" ideas claimed by the Interfaith Dialog "partners" per the official MB line!! Sam knows whereof he speaks or writes!!

    I highly recommend this work to anyone interested in this subject!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    They say: "Allah hath begotten a son" :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him. To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: "Be," and it is. Surah 2:116-117

    And they make the jinn associates with Allah, while He created them, and they falsely attribute to Him sons and daughters without knowledge; glory be to Him, and highly exalted is He above what they ascribe (to Him). Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things. S. 6:100-101 Shakir

    The truth is that - exalted be the Majesty of our Lord - HE has taken unto Himself neither wife nor son, S. 72:3 Sher Ali

    And they say: "The Most Beneficent (Allaah) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) [as the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son ['Isa (Christ)], and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels, etc.)]." (Maryam 19:8]

    Commentary from my Qur'an:

    "Begetting a son is a physical act depending on the needs of men's animal nature. God Most High is independent of all needs, and it is derogatory to Him to attribute such an act to Him. It is merely a relic of pagan and anthropomorphic materialist superstitions."

    "It is a derogation from the glory of God in fact it is blasphemy to say that God begets sons, like a man or an animal. The Christian doctrine is here emphatically repudiated. If words have any meaning, it would mean an attribution to God of a material nature, and of the lower animal functions of sex."

    I still run into Muslims who believe Christians believe that God had sex with Mary and out popped a little God named Jesus.

    One Muslim said: “Well, what do you think “the Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore, the holy One to be born will be called the Son of God” means?

    What do you make of this?

    Thanks.
    It seems Christianity has a complicated and nuanced understanding of "God"/Allah (Allah (Arabic) = God(English)). Slight deviations can apparently lead one into heresy?...right?...From my understanding--Christians are supposed to believe in One God not three ? ....correct? I don't understand the trinity and consequently do not understand the whole "son of God" concept either.
    Therefore, if a Christian believes that Jesus (pbuh) is not a literal/physical "son of God" then I am happy to hear that....since that is what the Quran is advising Muslims also. This was a particularly important point as historically the pagan/polytheist Arabs of that time believed that God had daughters. The Quran makes certain that people understand the important concept of "One God".

    For people like me, the "Trinity" is an impossible concept to understand...and I have tried to understand it---but have repeatedly failed. So, Islam provides a simple uncomplicated understanding of God, most compassionate, most merciful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    For people like me, the "Trinity" is an impossible concept to understand...and I have tried to understand it---but have repeatedly failed. So, Islam provides a simple uncomplicated understanding of God, most compassionate, most merciful.
    Not at all hard to believe. Stop and think for a moment. If the finite and fallen brain of mankind could fully understand an infinite and eternal Being, one would have to logically start to question just how "Infinite" or "Eternal"' this alleged being really was!!

    I would posit that the finite mind cannot really and fully understand infinity! We can read and/or hear the word, and in a vague sense, understand there is such an abstract whatever. But really and in depth "understand" it fully??? Actually, while I can't name any off the top of my head at this time, some of the Islamic Thinkers have said that Allah [that's "god" as defined by Muhammad] is not to be understood!! And that sure makes sense to me ... honest sense! But back to the "Trinity" issue ..

    I would recommend for you THE FORGOTTEN TRINITY by James While. James walks the reader through the Scriptural [that the Bible] as Yahweh reveals Himself to the prophets. I sincerely believe and hope that that book would help you immensely to at least understand what the Scriptures [properly understood] reveal. The book is available here:


    Hmmmmm ... the link doesn't show! So try Amazon.

    Try it! If you really want to understand the Scriptural [That the Bible!] presentation of the Trinity, you'll probably love it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    While I can understand why you believe this, this isn't what Islam actually teaches. It's supposed to have been put in the Kaaba by Abraham and Ishmael. They don't believe it is Allah, even if Mohammed did kiss the stone.

    Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia: 'Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you." (Sahih al-Bukhari 2:667)

    Also, while Muslims currently pray towards Mecca, that wasn't always the case. According to the Koran it was actually Jerusalem that they originally faced while praying. This was changed pretty early on.

    Surah 2: 142-145(Yusuf Ali translation) The fools among the people will say: "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say: To God belong both east and West: He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight. Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Apostle a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Apostle from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by God. And never would God Make your faith of no effect. For God is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful. We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is God unmindful of what they do. Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each otherÂ’s Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires, - then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong.

    So, while the ritual of the Kaaba and the black stone is definitely idolatrous, they don't believe the black stone is Allah. I can't find anything showing Mohammed believed that either. I think he was just so used to the ritual from his time before Islam that he kept doing it.
    Thankyou for correcting the misinformation.

    Some personal comments....
    The Quranic revelations are roughly categorized by the 2 locations, Mecca and Medina. This revelation (about facing Kaaba) occured in Medina. Geographically, facing Jerusalem and Kaaba at the same time was possible while in Mecca...but in Medina, these were in opposite directions. As Monotheists, it probably made sense to follow the traditions/rules of the Jewish monotheists and choose Jerusalem as a direction of prayer.
    ....So why did God want the Muslims to change directions?
    The Quran says it was a "test"....
    IMO....it is interesting that the Kaaba at this time, had idols---that is, the pre-islamic Kaaba is said to have had idols around it...and it is said that these were cleared around 630 CE when Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) re-entered the city....so at the time of this revelation, Muslims would have to turn from Jerusalem---a symbol of monotheism,--- to a Kaaba that still had idols.
    Perhaps the test was if Muslims could overlook the immediate idols/idolatry and recall that the Kaaba was a place of worship set up by Prophet Abraham (pbuh) who worshiped the One God. That this place of worship was being shared by people of many faiths including the monothest Muslims ----reminding us all that God is the creator of ALL humanity.
    The principle philosophical concept that Islam is founded on is Tawheed/Unity.
    There is a story that illustrates the idea of "unity" ...pre-Islamic Kaaba was being rebuilt and it was time to put the black stone into place. Since it was considered a matter of pride and honor to be the tribe to put the stone in place, an argument broke out among the tribes. Before the situation deteriorated into bloodshed, a young man came forward with a proposal----why not everyone put it back?...He put the black stone on a piece of cloth. All the tribal leaders held the cloth and helped carry it. This way, the honor was shared by everyone. (That young man eventually became a Prophet and brought Islam.)
    We/humanity survive when we help each other, we perish when we fight each other.

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