Islam: Allah has no son

[Christian3]

I have no idea what Christians believe or not as the Trinity is unclear to me. If a Christian says he believes in One God, I will take his word for it.

Why did your Allah say the Trinity was Allah, Jesus and the virgin Mary?

[siam]

Why did your Allah say the Trinity was Allah, Jesus and the virgin Mary?

In Surah 5:116 God asks Jesus, son of Mary, if he told people to worship himself and his mother as Gods besides GOD.
Jesus replies that he did not say so.

Its a conversation between God and Jesus meant to highlight the concept that God is ONE.

[siam]

My point was and is simply that Muslims worship a go as defined by Muhammad. Not the I AM God as defined in and by the Scriptures which Muhammad told the Christians of his day to follow. Which are provably the same Scriptures
we have, use, and quote you from today!!!!!

Something you don't understand???

OK ....if you say so...

[Christian3]

In Surah 5:116 God asks Jesus, son of Mary, if he told people to worship himself and his mother as Gods besides GOD.
Jesus replies that he did not say so.

Its a conversation between God and Jesus meant to highlight the concept that God is ONE.

Mary was never part of the Trinity. Apparently your Allah did not know that.

[Trucker]

Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
In Surah 5:116 God asks Jesus, son of Mary, if he told people to worship himself and his mother as Gods besides GOD.
Jesus replies that he did not say so.

Its a conversation between God and Jesus meant to highlight the concept that God is ONE.

Mary was never part of the Trinity. Apparently your Allah did not know that.

Obviously. Allah [or whoever originated Sura 5:116] picked that idea up while sitting around a desert campfire lisening to some story teller that didn't understand squat about Christian Scriptures or Theology.

[Dan Zebiri]

Yes, absolutely true! Siam's and hakeems Allah god is ignorant with false & Unsound knowledge.

His koran is therefore proven to be imperfect, twists the facts and misrepresents truth. Koran, islam, the hadith and sunnah traditions - whether sunni or Shia or bahai or ahmadi are all USELESS and lies.

Mary was never part of the Trinity. Apparently your Allah did not know that.

[siam]

Mary was never part of the Trinity. Apparently your Allah did not know that.

If you want to believe that God can be ignorant---that is upto you...I have no problem with it
As for me---I think its more reasonable to assume humans are more likely to be ignorant rather than God.

[JonathanL]

If you want to believe that God can be ignorant---that is upto you...I have no problem with it
As for me---I think its more reasonable to assume humans are more likely to be ignorant rather than God.

Ah, so that means you believe the Quran is not divinely inspired?


God is not ignorant, and never errs

Therefore anything that comes directly from God contains no fault and is never wrong.

The Quran contains numerous faults and errors (Accusing Christians of worshipping Mary, for one)

Therefore the Quran is not from God

[Christian3]

If you want to believe that God can be ignorant---that is upto you...I have no problem with it
As for me---I think its more reasonable to assume humans are more likely to be ignorant rather than God.

God is not ignorant, but your Allah has proved to be ignorant.

There is not one verse in the Qur'an that refutes the Trinity as it is, Father, the Father's Word, and His Spirit.

Perhaps your Allah had never heard that either?!

[Dan Zebiri]

There you go, proof positive that siam, hakeem et al, do NOT believe In truths BECAUSE of the facts, But in spite of false "facts".

They will rather follow falsehoods, lies and misrepresentions, instead of verified and historical FACTS.

This is not just famously naive but also evidence of blind faith that's not worth following.

You can just as well assume that gravity may or may not exist, so it's fine for you to walk off a cliff hoping that gravity is absent. You'll then pay for the misguided thoughts you follow - dearly.

The Allah of your koran is ignorant because he talks sheer nonsense relative to the verified facts and of history.

No reputable scholar of history admits that the real Trinity is found in the koran e.g. 5/116. Neither do they reference the Koran for authoritative, objective facts of science or history or even to learn the true chronology of Jesus Christ's life & times on earth. For that, the real scholars all go to the Biblical sources.

If you want to believe that God can be ignorant---that is upto you...I have no problem with it
As for me---I think its more reasonable to assume humans are more likely to be ignorant rather than God.

[siam]

1) Ah, so that means you believe the Quran is not divinely inspired?

2) God is not ignorant, and never errs
Therefore anything that comes directly from God contains no fault and is never wrong.

3) The Quran contains numerous faults and errors (Accusing Christians of worshipping Mary, for one)

4) Therefore the Quran is not from God

1) How does that follow from my statement?...

2) Agree

3) "Accusing Christians of worshipping Mary"---where?

4) Disagree
Muslims have a criteria to verify the claim of the Quran.

[siam]

1) God is not ignorant, but your Allah has proved to be ignorant.

2) There is not one verse in the Qur'an that refutes the Trinity as it is, Father, the Father's Word, and His Spirit.

Perhaps your Allah had never heard that either?!

1) God(English) = Allah (Arabic)
Numerous Christians and their Bibles use the term "Allah" for God. Christians were using "Allah" before Muslims did....So....do you believe God/Allah is ignorant or not?

2) So?....

It might feel good to suppose that God is obsessed with Christians...that they are the most important in the universe....but the (Arabic) Quran was primarily sent to the Arabs/descendants of Ishmael, because of the Divine promise made to Prophet Abraham.

[Dan Zebiri]

That simply makes you a heretical and aberrant muslim.

YOU may Not want to admit the koran as a God. But the teachings of the koran itself, confirmed by Sunni kalam theology say the Koran and it's source "mother of the book" and the so called "guarded tablets" ARE Eternal and uncreated.

Anything eternal and uncreated in islam IS GOD and is DIVINE.

You trying to deny the above shows how false you are to orthodox islam. And how orthodox islam is false..you are being duplicitous.

Multiple entities that are "uncreated and eternal" is not monotheism pure or otherwise. It is not simply about what is "worshipped".

Theologically and doctrinally they are : 1. Allah, 2. Mother of the book (13/39) and 3. the guarded tablets.

So more precisely, orthodox sunni islam, theologically believes in Binitarianism or Trinitarianism.

You may deny this siam etc, but your own Shia brothers refute you.

Their theological rift from Sunni islam is that the mother of the books, guarded tablets were created in time and space, & were never eternal like Allah is.

You try to naively pooh pooh these facts, claiming that the schism of sunni and shia islam over the nature of God and his divine word "petered out".

Its just a hypocritical lie, your "petered out" claim. Simplistic and it just betrays your abysmal ignorance, denial and blatant cover up of two Islams. With their divided doctrines about the Godhead and tawhid.

The rift about God's nature and his Word resulted in the PERMANENT BREAK UP of Islam's tawhid "monotheism".

Orthodox islam went ahead with a binatarianism of Allah and his Word.

The second islam - Shiism tries to continue with "pure montheism". And so, God had no word from eternity.

You and.hakeem also tax the Christians' patience with many nonsensical misrepresentions and false claims.

But at least my points are supported by both Sunni and Shia theological positions. Which so far NO muslim has disproved.

You have asked many interesting questions and I appreciate it.
I don't have much patience in defending/clarifying a point that someone else insists I believe in when I have explained that I do not believe it.
I do not believe the Quran is God. There is nothing more to say on the topic.

[Christian3]

1) God(English) = Allah (Arabic)
Numerous Christians and their Bibles use the term "Allah" for God. Christians were using "Allah" before Muslims did....So....do you believe God/Allah is ignorant or not?

2) So?....

It might feel good to suppose that God is obsessed with Christians...that they are the most important in the universe....but the (Arabic) Quran was primarily sent to the Arabs/descendants of Ishmael, because of the Divine promise made to Prophet Abraham.

Arabic speaking Christians call God "Allah" since that is the Arabic word for Allah, but they do not have the same concept of God that you Muslims who follow Muhammad do.

[Dan Zebiri]

"ALLAH" used by middle eastern and Arab Christians is a total non-issue altogether, siam.

Because Allah is only a generic / general name for God in Christianity that is NOT his personal name. It's a compound word from al-ilah meaning just "the God" or the one, true and living God.

BUT, the concepts BEHIND the term/word ALLAH is starkly different for the Christians and muslims.

For starters the Lord Jesus specifically instructed His disciples and companions to call God/Allah as "Our Heavenly FATHER" In Matthew chapter 6 verses 8 - 10..

Islam and the koran expressly forbids people or muslims to address God as "Father / our Father" by any means! Per sura 112/3 - "he begets none..." etc

So, there may be same or similar terms, that does NOT mean the doctrines and teachings behind the term / word "Allah" are the same by any means in the Gospel and the Koran.

The Allah of islam and the koran IS ignorant and spews nonsensical falsehoods, BUT the God/Allah of the Bible and the Gospel DOES NOT.

As clear as day!

1) God(English) = Allah (Arabic)
Numerous Christians and their Bibles use the term "Allah" for God. Christians were using "Allah" before Muslims did....So....do you believe God/Allah is ignorant or not?

2) So?....

It might feel good to suppose that God is obsessed with Christians...that they are the most important in the universe....but the (Arabic) Quran was primarily sent to the Arabs/descendants of Ishmael, because of the Divine promise made to Prophet Abraham.