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Islam: Allah has no son

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Trucker View Post
    I worship the monotheistic God as precisely defined in and by the Christian Scriptures. And yes, the Scriptures [the Bible] does say there is but one God bur many "gods". Muslims are mandated by the Islamic sacralized writings to worshop Allah. We do not worship Allah as defined by Muhammad.



    Note particularly V.4

    Does that answer your question sufficiently?
    ]
    The principle concept in Islam is Tawheed (Unity/One God) the opposite of which is Shirk (Division/Many Gods). The concept of Unity of One God is broken when the idea of "God" is divided into many. Therefore---when a person says there is a "false" God or that there are other Gods than the one the person worships---it divides "God". This becomes polytheism. This is also true when a person says that "the other" worships Satan because by elevating this concept to that of a divine and giving it the same powers as the divine---one has conceptually created another "God".

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
      You said you don't understand the Trinity. What confuses you. Is it that you are confused between one God and three persons?
      There are many Christian beliefs and when one thinks they are about to understand, another Christian comes along and confuses the issues...then there are the heresy stuff so that even if you think u got the hang of the explanation---apparently it falls into a heresy!!!....not to mention, there are issues within Christianities that Christians themselves have not ironed out....
      ...then, there is the fact that Christian doctrines hinge on a set of assumptions about the purpose of creation and about human nature---if one happens not to agree with these starting presumptions----Christianity will not make any sense.

      Do you believe in the concept of "One God"?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by siam View Post
        There are many Christian beliefs and when one thinks they are about to understand, another Christian comes along and confuses the issues...then there are the heresy stuff so that even if you think u got the hang of the explanation---apparently it falls into a heresy!!!....not to mention, there are issues within Christianities that Christians themselves have not ironed out....
        ...then, there is the fact that Christian doctrines hinge on a set of assumptions about the purpose of creation and about human nature---if one happens not to agree with these starting presumptions----Christianity will not make any sense.

        Do you believe in the concept of "One God"?
        The concept of the Trinity is biblical, siam.

        https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm...ty/trinity.cfm

        https://www.monergism.com/topics/trinity

        https://www.monergism.com/topics/tri...idence-trinity


        Now answer my question so I can help you.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by siam View Post
          The principle concept in Islam is Tawheed (Unity/One God) the opposite of which is Shirk (Division/Many Gods). The concept of Unity of One God is broken when the idea of "God" is divided into many. Therefore---when a person says there is a "false" God or that there are other Gods than the one the person worships---it divides "God". This becomes polytheism. This is also true when a person says that "the other" worships Satan because by elevating this concept to that of a divine and giving it the same powers as the divine---one has conceptually created another "God".
          And yet, your Allah (GOD) uses his voice to create "let it be" (his WORD) and your Allah has his own spirit (SPIRIT), but you do not claim your Allah is divided.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
            I gave u a list of things that create confusion....
            I appreciate the offer of help---but...your attempts are unlikely to succeed...none have so far. Nevertheless...u can give it a try and see.

            I assume from your reply that you do not believe in "One God" but in Trinity?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
              And yet, Allah /GOD uses his voice to create "let it be" (his WORD) and your Allah has his own spirit (SPIRIT), but you do not claim your Allah is divided.
              Exactly.

              Islam/Quran is very particular about this point that God is "One".
              God can create but that creation is NOT God. Both Nature and Quran come from God---but they are not God. Muslims do not worship the Quran (God's words) nor Nature (God's revelation)---We worship God alone.
              This is the major concept underpinning the wordlview/metaphysics of Islam.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by siam View Post
                Exactly.

                Islam/Quran is very particular about this point that God is "One".
                God can create but that creation is NOT God. Both Nature and Quran come from God---but they are not God. Muslims do not worship the Quran (God's words) nor Nature (God's revelation)---We worship God alone.
                This is the major concept underpinning the wordlview/metaphysics of Islam.
                And Christians worship God alone.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by siam View Post
                  I gave u a list of things that create confusion....
                  Surely you wouldn't ever in this world ever intend to confuse???

                  Originally posted by siam View Post
                  I appreciate the offer of help---but...your attempts are unlikely to succeed...none have so far. Nevertheless...u can give it a try and see.
                  Are you here seeking help?

                  Originally posted by siam View Post
                  I assume from your reply that you do not believe in "One God" but in Trinity?
                  Why assume when you can read what the man says and have no need to assume?

                  The great I AM GOD revealed Himself as [I'll us use the term] "Triunity"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    You can pretend that islam is particular about its "tawhid monotheism" siam, but in reality there is actually NO true monotheism in orthodox (or even sunni) islam.

                    Sura 85/21-22 says:-

                    bal huwa qur'aan(un) majeed(un) fee lawH(in) maHfooZ(in)

                    'Yes, this is a glorious Qur'an on a TABLET well guarded.'

                    This "well guarded tablet" is called "lauh mahfuz"...and contains the so-called "mother of the book" (until kitab) of sura 13/39.

                    Orthodox sunni islam teaches that these tablets and the Mother of the book are "eternal AND uncreated ".

                    They therefore co-existed with God / Allah from eternity and were never created at a point in time.

                    Anything that is eternal AND uncreated is divine and has divine qualities just like God.

                    Therefore in islam's heaven, there are TWO uncreated entities, not just one! The tawhid theory and idea is contradicted and destroyed by sura 13/39 AND 85/21-22.

                    There's strictly no "one God" in islam as long as these 2 verses exist, no authentic "monotheism" that siam is trying to convince us of. Unless siam denies and gives up the orthodox theories & doctrines of Sunni islam.

                    Siam demonstrates sheer hypocrisy by claiming there is "no monotheism in the Bible", when he/she is guilty of the very same error, found in the koran itself!



                    Originally posted by siam View Post
                    Exactly.

                    Islam/Quran is very particular about this point that God is "One".
                    God can create but that creation is NOT God. Both Nature and Quran come from God---but they are not God. Muslims do not worship the Quran (God's words) nor Nature (God's revelation)---We worship God alone.
                    This is the major concept underpinning the wordlview/metaphysics of Islam.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
                      You can pretend that islam is particular about its "tawhid monotheism" siam, but in reality there is actually NO true monotheism in orthodox (or even sunni) islam.

                      Sura 85/21-22 says:-

                      bal huwa qur'aan(un) majeed(un) fee lawH(in) maHfooZ(in)

                      'Yes, this is a glorious Qur'an on a TABLET well guarded.'

                      This "well guarded tablet" is called "lauh mahfuz"...and contains the so-called "mother of the book" (until kitab) of sura 13/39.

                      Orthodox sunni islam teaches that these tablets and the Mother of the book are "eternal AND uncreated ".

                      They therefore co-existed with God / Allah from eternity and were never created at a point in time.

                      Anything that is eternal AND uncreated is divine and has divine qualities just like God.

                      Therefore in islam's heaven, there are TWO uncreated entities, not just one! The tawhid theory and idea is contradicted and destroyed by sura 13/39 AND 85/21-22.

                      There's strictly no "one God" in islam as long as these 2 verses exist, no authentic "monotheism" that siam is trying to convince us of. Unless siam denies and gives up the orthodox theories & doctrines of Sunni islam.

                      Siam demonstrates sheer hypocrisy by claiming there is "no monotheism in the Bible", when he/she is guilty of the very same error, found in the koran itself!
                      Amen!!!!!


                      VERY GOOD!!!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                        And Christians worship God alone.
                        interesting.

                        So Christians worship the "One God"
                        Muslims worship the "One God"....

                        If only "One God" exists...could it be assumed that no other divine power exists except the "One God"?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
                          You can pretend that islam is particular about its "tawhid monotheism" siam, but in reality there is actually NO true monotheism in orthodox (or even sunni) islam.

                          Sura 85/21-22 says:-

                          bal huwa qur'aan(un) majeed(un) fee lawH(in) maHfooZ(in)

                          'Yes, this is a glorious Qur'an on a TABLET well guarded.'

                          This "well guarded tablet" is called "lauh mahfuz"...and contains the so-called "mother of the book" (until kitab) of sura 13/39.

                          Orthodox sunni islam teaches that these tablets and the Mother of the book are "eternal AND uncreated ".

                          They therefore co-existed with God / Allah from eternity and were never created at a point in time.

                          Anything that is eternal AND uncreated is divine and has divine qualities just like God.

                          Therefore in islam's heaven, there are TWO uncreated entities, not just one! The tawhid theory and idea is contradicted and destroyed by sura 13/39 AND 85/21-22.

                          There's strictly no "one God" in islam as long as these 2 verses exist, no authentic "monotheism" that siam is trying to convince us of. Unless siam denies and gives up the orthodox theories & doctrines of Sunni islam.

                          Siam demonstrates sheer hypocrisy by claiming there is "no monotheism in the Bible", when he/she is guilty of the very same error, found in the koran itself!
                          Kalam Allah (speech of God) or the Guarded tablet, Angels, Spirits, the Word....etc may be mentioned in the Quran, but Muslims worship God alone. The rest does not matter...worship belongs to God alone...that is why Tawheed is such an important concept....because all people have a tendency to get distracted/forgetful and divide God.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Not true, what "God" is there in islam? There is no pure monotheism any more in it at all in reality - as the koran betrays. Monotheism is never defined in your selective, narrow way of "involving only worship"! The ideas of 'tawhid' means 'monotheism' is not only about worshiping one God. It is equally as much about what else co-existed with Allah from eternity - in an uncreated state, and sura 13/39, 43/4, 85/22-22 all declare that without dispute.

                            You may claim not to worship the koran and its contents but the actual practices of muslims - like yourself, BELIES your 'non-worship' claim. In sunni islam - as well as shia, no-non Muslim may approach the koran - especially the "purely" printed arabic one. We may not touch it, open it or read it - and the muslim scholars claim that the infidel non-muslims are ALL unclean and will defile the book, by touching it!

                            Then, muslims themselves can only touch and open the arabic Koran only AFTER performing the compulsory ceremonial ABLUTION washings or wudu / wuzu rituals. No woman who is menstruating can ever touch the arabic koran, or else it will become dirty and unclean, just like her.

                            This "pure arabic" koran must be stored above peoples' heads, kissed and adored, never to be dropped or put on the floor at ANY time, never put between the armpits, never held in the left hand but only by the right! If the above are breached, there are NEGATIVE religious consequences on all muslims who breach such orthodox regulations, demands and rules and must be redeemed, to avoid punishments from Allah. Do you dare to DENY the above siam?

                            This koran is treated in the very same way as an object of worship in any iconic religious system.. It is a relic and an object of veneration, reverence and worship like in any pagan temple of hinduism, shintoism, taoism and indeed, sikhism. The Only difference is, you may not bow down to it as "a god" but islam's orthopraxy demands in all other ways, the koran's ritual veneration, reverence & deference & elevates it into an object of veneration like any other religious idol.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The Brill Encyclopedia of Islam, a scholarly source says:

                              "preserved Tablet":
                              According to q 85:22, the location of the Qurʾān, traditionally understood to be in God's presence. The lawḥ maḥfūẓ is often identified with the heavenly book (q.v.) by association with other qurʾānic terms: “mother of the scripture” ( umm al- kitāb, q 13:39; 43:4; also 3:7), “hidden writing” ( kitāb maknūn, q 56:78). As umm al-kitāb it is the source ( aṣl) not only of the Qurʾān but also of the other scriptures.


                              Heavenly book:
                              "The account of all past, present and future events, and the source of revelation to which the qurʾānic terms “mother of the book” ( umm al- kitāb, q 13:39, 43:4), “hidden book” ( kitāb maknūn, q 56:78) and “guarded tablet” (lawḥ maḥfūẓ, q 85:22) collectively refer. According to most interpreters, the heavenly book sits either to the right of or underneath God's throne (see "throne of god"), above the seventh heaven (see "heaven and sky").

                              Islamic authorities like an-Nasafi who lived in the sixth century hijra, claimed that the Quran is the uncreated word of God. al-Ghazali and ibn Khaldun agree with this polemic. If it were merely a matter of worshiping a unitary deity - like your Allah, it would not be a such divisive and big issue in the islamic ummah or muslim society.

                              It would also never result in a pungent black mark - rather a 'red mark' and horrible, SHAMEFUL blotch in islamic history - the Mihna "trials" under caliph al-Mamun in the Abbasid empire from AD 833 - 848 in which muslim religious scholars were punished, imprisoned, and even killed unless they conceded the Mu'tazila doctrine of the created nature of the Qur'an. The policy lasted for fifteen years (833–848 CE) as it continued through the reigns of al-Ma'mun's immediate successors, al-Mu'tasim and al-Wathiq, and two years of al-Mutawakkil. Even the fourth jurist sheikh ibn Hanbal was imprisoned and tortured by fellow muslims for rejecting the rationalist Mutazilte doctrine of the created nature of the koran.

                              This huge schism in islam is serious and disastrous enough to split islam right down the middle of the "grand ummah" - the permanent quarrelsome war and irreconcilable SPLIT between sunni islam and shia islam. The shias adopt the mutazila doctrine of the created nature of the koran - that it never existed from eternity with Allah. While sunnites (so-called "orthodox") follow the general theory that the koran was uncreated and eternally co-existent with Allah himself.

                              So it is not just about 'worship' the one true Allah. It is much more serious and severe than merely that like what siam wants us to believe!

                              The mihna of medieval islam, the rationalist mutazila theologians and the permanent implacable - even violent, shia-sunni divide all point evidence to the disunity and break-up of the muslim world for over 1,000 years over more than the issues of "worship of one God" like what some desperate muslim propogandist and missionaries want us to believe.












                              Originally posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
                              You can pretend that islam is particular about its "tawhid monotheism" siam, but in reality there is actually NO true monotheism in orthodox (or even sunni) islam.

                              Sura 85/21-22 says:-

                              bal huwa qur'aan(un) majeed(un) fee lawH(in) maHfooZ(in)

                              'Yes, this is a glorious Qur'an on a TABLET well guarded.'

                              This "well guarded tablet" is called "lauh mahfuz"...and contains the so-called "mother of the book" (until kitab) of sura 13/39.

                              Orthodox sunni islam teaches that these tablets and the Mother of the book are "eternal AND uncreated ".

                              They therefore co-existed with God / Allah from eternity and were never created at a point in time.

                              Anything that is eternal AND uncreated is divine and has divine qualities just like God.

                              Therefore in islam's heaven, there are TWO uncreated entities, not just one! The tawhid theory and idea is contradicted and destroyed by sura 13/39 AND 85/21-22.

                              There's strictly no "one God" in islam as long as these 2 verses exist, no authentic "monotheism" that siam is trying to convince us of. Unless siam denies and gives up the orthodox theories & doctrines of Sunni islam.

                              Siam demonstrates sheer hypocrisy by claiming there is "no monotheism in the Bible", when he/she is guilty of the very same error, found in the koran itself!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
                                Not true, what "God" is there in islam? There is no pure monotheism any more in it at all in reality - as the koran betrays. Monotheism is never defined in your selective, narrow way of "involving only worship"! The ideas of 'tawhid' means 'monotheism' is not only about worshiping one God. It is equally as much about what else co-existed with Allah from eternity - in an uncreated state, and sura 13/39, 43/4, 85/22-22 all declare that without dispute.

                                You may claim not to worship the koran and its contents but the actual practices of muslims - like yourself, BELIES your 'non-worship' claim. In sunni islam - as well as shia, no-non Muslim may approach the koran - especially the "purely" printed arabic one. We may not touch it, open it or read it - and the muslim scholars claim that the infidel non-muslims are ALL unclean and will defile the book, by touching it!

                                Then, muslims themselves can only touch and open the arabic Koran only AFTER performing the compulsory ceremonial ABLUTION washings or wudu / wuzu rituals. No woman who is menstruating can ever touch the arabic koran, or else it will become dirty and unclean, just like her.

                                This "pure arabic" koran must be stored above peoples' heads, kissed and adored, never to be dropped or put on the floor at ANY time, never put between the armpits, never held in the left hand but only by the right! If the above are breached, there are NEGATIVE religious consequences on all muslims who breach such orthodox regulations, demands and rules and must be redeemed, to avoid punishments from Allah. Do you dare to DENY the above siam?

                                This koran is treated in the very same way as an object of worship in any iconic religious system.. It is a relic and an object of veneration, reverence and worship like in any pagan temple of hinduism, shintoism, taoism and indeed, sikhism. The Only difference is, you may not bow down to it as "a god" but islam's orthopraxy demands in all other ways, the koran's ritual veneration, reverence & deference & elevates it into an object of veneration like any other religious idol.
                                You have successfully pointed out the necessity of why tawheed is an essential and primary doctrine.----Without it, humanity could so easily fall into the practice of dividing God!!! It is why the Jews have the Shema and it must be why Christians determinedly insist that they too are monotheists.....?......

                                Comment

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