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James Tour gets to debate origin-of-life chemist!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
    Tour is a well known and well documented Liar For Jesus.
    Can you please not argue by posting a link? TWeb frowns on that. But here is the response to West by James Tour. Since the kerfuffle about sugars and cyanide derivatives is admittedly minor, here is Tour's main point in reply:

    Source: James Tour

    But all of the above is minor compared to Szostak’s showing that in a single step, heat and light can make a compound that resembles a dehydrated nucleotide (though it is not a nucleotide since it is devoid of any stereochemistry) from “simple sugars” and “cyanide derivatives.” … To present that heat and UV light can act on these compounds (even if we are to use these 2 and 3 carbon simple sugars rather than glycerol and ethylene glycol, and to use any simple cyanide derivative) to afford anything like the listed “RNA nucleotide” (albeit not a nucleotide since it shows no stereochemistry) is incorrect and misleading. There are so many steps involved in such a transformation.

    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      Tours appears to have said that he's had several discussions and one would hope that in at least one instance that he'd possess the common sense to have actually asked one...
      I gather that he has indeed talked to origin-of-life researchers, Jack Szostak for one.

      And this was about his claim that "no scientist alive today understands macroevolution" which isn't concerned with the origin of life since all biological evolution takes place after life has already first arisen -- regardless of how it arose.
      Yes, and we can discuss macroevolution elsewhere.

      Blessings,
      Lee
      "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
        He has talked about biologists' papers and points, and has presumably talked with biologists, and this is the first biologist who was willing to discuss origin-of-life with him.

        Blessings,
        Lee
        Presumably will get you a cup of coffee for 2 bucks. He has presented no published papers where he consulted with biologists or geneticists concerning his hypothesis. What research has he published to support his hypothesis?

        There is a problem with hypothesis that [rp[pse the negative as to why something cannot happen or it is unlikely.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
          Can you please not argue by posting a link?
          Posting links to support points made is perfectly acceptable at TWeb. Too bad you picked heroes like Behe and Tour who are proven liars and charlatans doing whatever possible to push their anti-science agenda. They do love fools like you who aren't bright enough to realize how badly they are being used.

          Comment


          • #20
            When will creationists (and with that I also mean the ID community) understand that abiogenesis and evolution are separate fields, and the second doesn't depend on the first? Seriously, it's like saying the same thing 100.000 times over.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
              Can you please not argue by posting a link?
              I've asked you multiple times to stop making arguments when you have no idea what you're talking about. You've been rather persistent in ignoring that request.
              "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                No, he's saying that origin-of-life researchers are vastly inflating their claims.


                No, he is not arguing for the negative, he is not saying how life originated, he is only saying we don't know.

                Blessings,
                Lee
                That is indeed an argument for the negative!!!! He is making arguments claiming as his basis what he claims scientists do not know.

                Again . . .

                He has presented no published papers where he consulted with biologists or geneticists concerning his hypothesis. What research has he published to support his hypothesis?

                There is a problem with hypothesis that propose the negative as to why something cannot happen or it is unlikely.
                Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-29-2020, 08:31 AM.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  There is a problem with hypothesis that propose the negative as to why something cannot happen or it is unlikely.
                  Tour is not saying abiogenesis cannot happen, he does say the problem is hard, which I think is generally acknowledged. But he has published articles discussing these issues with biologists.

                  Blessings,
                  Lee
                  Last edited by lee_merrill; 03-29-2020, 12:07 PM.
                  "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                    I've asked you multiple times to stop making arguments when you have no idea what you're talking about. You've been rather persistent in ignoring that request.
                    I'm talking about talks and books addressed to the general public, and I do have an idea what the arguments are. Did you watch the debate, and do you have a comment on it?

                    Blessings,
                    Lee
                    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                      Posting links to support points made is perfectly acceptable at TWeb.
                      But you haven't made any points, would you please respond to what I quoted from James Tour?

                      Blessings,
                      Lee
                      "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                        But you haven't made any points,
                        Of course I have and I provided support too. Just none you're honest enough to acknowledge. I will give you credit, when it comes to knee-jerk supporting professional Liars For Jesus like Tour and Behe you are consistent.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                          I'm talking about talks and books addressed to the general public, and I do have an idea what the arguments are. Did you watch the debate, and do you have a comment on it?
                          I was referring to you activities in the other thread you were participating, where you claimed to know something about gene regulation, but were clearly just making stuff up.
                          "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                            Of course I have and I provided support too. Just none you're honest enough to acknowledge.
                            What points have you made, though? Aside from ad hominems, which don't count as discussion.

                            Blessings,
                            Lee
                            "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                              I was referring to you activities in the other thread you were participating, where you claimed to know something about gene regulation, but were clearly just making stuff up.
                              Well, take me back to that other thread and correct my misunderstandings, then. Let's discuss Tour's debate in this thread, though.

                              Blessings,
                              Lee
                              "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                                What points have you made, though? Aside from ad hominems, which don't count as discussion.

                                Blessings,
                                Lee
                                Sarcasm and name-calling aren't ad hominems, Lee. I took me a while to learn that but it is true.

                                Comment

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