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  • Church nonessential?

    Church is now apparently nonessential, like a bar or restaurant, but unlike the liquor store or cannabis store. Has the time passed by the idea church as an integral institution of western society?

    Any thoughts?

  • #2
    From a sociological perspective, I think most of the West has reached the point where they could say that. There are a number of pockets of the US/Canada that would be exceptions but as a whole, I think that's probably fairly accurate.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #3
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      From a sociological perspective, I think most of the West has reached the point where they could say that. There are a number of pockets of the US/Canada that would be exceptions but as a whole, I think that's probably fairly accurate.
      Yes, from a sociological perspective, yes, I agree with your statement as worded.

      But is church really nonessential?

      My view is that church is a community for the wider community; the wider community would be ill-served without the Christian church. If religion is truly a private preference and not a public good then we Christians have been wrong for 2000 years.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by simplicio View Post
        Church is now apparently nonessential, like a bar or restaurant, but unlike the liquor store or cannabis store. Has the time passed by the idea church as an integral institution of western society?

        Any thoughts?
        You have a strange tendency to ask the opposite question of the position you hold. I, like you, consider the Church to be indispensable.

        Comment


        • #5
          For once, I think am in agreement with simplicio. The idea that "virtual" gathering is in any way comparable to the actual assembling of the body of Christ is absurd. It shows misunderstanding of almost everything the NT shows about how to "do church."
          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

          Beige Federalist.

          Nationalist Christian.

          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

          Proud member of the this space left blank community.

          Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

          Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

          Justice for Matthew Perna!

          Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
            You have a strange tendency to ask the opposite question of the position you hold. I, like you, consider the Church to be indispensable.
            But was is the question "Is church nonessential" a leading question? In case you have not read the news, church is effectively treated as nonessential.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
              For once, I think am in agreement with simplicio.
              I do hope that does not make you an infidel troll!

              The idea that "virtual" gathering is in any way comparable to the actual assembling of the body of Christ is absurd. It shows misunderstanding of almost everything the NT shows about how to "do church."
              If the Body of Christ is some invisible collection of believers, why not just dispense with a physical church and rely on the spiritual connection?

              An alternative view is the Body of Christ as an organic and living body with life flowing through it, which would imply the need for communion in some concrete and tangible way.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                For once, I think am in agreement with simplicio. The idea that "virtual" gathering is in any way comparable to the actual assembling of the body of Christ is absurd. It shows misunderstanding of almost everything the NT shows about how to "do church."

                And yet, in the early first century (and even today in other countries where persecution is present), believers met secretly in small groups. I think the Lord goes not judge us for where we worship in times of distress but how we worship.

                Church is absolutely essential, but we are also to obey the government when they do not directly go against God's directives to us. Church will return with normal gatherings eventually.


                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                  For once, I think am in agreement with simplicio. The idea that "virtual" gathering is in any way comparable to the actual assembling of the body of Christ is absurd. It shows misunderstanding of almost everything the NT shows about how to "do church."
                  So, what is your suggestion? Should Christians gather in large numbers at the risk of spreading the virus? And should other religious groups be allowed to do the same?
                  Last edited by Charles; 03-29-2020, 09:42 AM.
                  "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                    You have a strange tendency to ask the opposite question of the position you hold. I, like you, consider the Church to be indispensable.
                    Would you consider church to be essential/indispensable for yourself, essential/indespensable for christianity, or essential/indispensable for society as a whole?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                      And yet, in the early first century (and even today in other countries where persecution is present), believers met secretly in small groups. I think the Lord goes not judge us for where we worship in times of distress but how we worship.

                      Church is absolutely essential, but we are also to obey the government when they do not directly go against God's directives to us. Church will return with normal gatherings eventually.
                      They still met together, in union with each other by coming together physically.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                        They still met together, in union with each other by coming together physically.

                        Yes, I did say that. But under the circumstances in which we find ourselves in right now, and with the technology we have, I don't think the Lord is going to hold us accused of not assembling together if we are still involved in some sort of worship.

                        As I also said, the time will come again when we can meet together again.


                        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                          And yet, in the early first century (and even today in other countries where persecution is present), believers met secretly in small groups. I think the Lord goes not judge us for where we worship in times of distress but how we worship.
                          They met. Neither the size of the gathering nor the physical setting matters. What matters is the sort of human interaction that can't be replaced by a screen.


                          Church is absolutely essential, but we are also to obey the government when they do not directly go against God's directives to us. Church will return with normal gatherings eventually.
                          I believe this will lead to an increased tendency toward insularism, and the idea that church is all about music and message, and not about real fellowship and interaction.
                          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                          Beige Federalist.

                          Nationalist Christian.

                          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                          Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                          Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                          Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                          Justice for Matthew Perna!

                          Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Charles View Post
                            So, what is your suggestion? Should Christians gather in large numbers at the risk of spreading the virus?
                            We should gather. I have some qualms about the appropriateness of "large numbers" regardless of the virus. Large gatherings certainly evoke a sense of awe, but they are not conducive to the sorts of interaction and intimate fellowship we see modeled in the NT.


                            And should other religious groups be allowed to do the same?
                            Yes, First Amendment rights should be fully respected. IMO, the Bill of Rights *is* a "suicide pact."
                            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                            Beige Federalist.

                            Nationalist Christian.

                            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                            Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                            Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                            Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                            Justice for Matthew Perna!

                            Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              And BTW, I fully acknowledge my own hypocrisy in this matter. For various reasons, including a bit of social anxiety I've developed, I have not "gone to church" regularly in some years.
                              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                              Beige Federalist.

                              Nationalist Christian.

                              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                              Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                              Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                              Justice for Matthew Perna!

                              Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                              Comment

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