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Thread: Church nonessential?

  1. #21
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Both.
    A very brief answer.

    Is the whole idea of communal worship just some chance for the Lord to judge us, or does it perform a real function for the Body of Christ?

    Masses without the faithful will soon lead to a country without masses https://www.firstthings.com/web-excl...hops-of-france

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    tWebber Thoughtful Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Man cannot live by bread alone.

    We are finding ways to respect the social distancing directives, is it possible to include social distancing with communal worship?
    Probably not.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

  3. #23
    Technology Staff Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    A very brief answer.
    Yes, but you asked and I thought the answer is simple. I lean on the history and tradition of the Church. Mostly because I'm a Catholic.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    This is a stupid question. They are trying to stop people spreading a deadly disease not destroy Christianity.

  5. #25
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    This is a stupid question. They are trying to stop people spreading a deadly disease not destroy Christianity.
    I would not call it stupid but I agree with you. I don't think one should put too much into calling it nonessential. I would not interpret that as a statement that church is not essential but rather that it is not essential for churchgoes to gather physically for this limited time period. At my job I am among those who are not "essential". I don't take that personally at all. What it means is that it is not essential for me to be present physically in order to do my job. I can do my job at home and I do so with the challenges and strange situations it causes.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

  6. Amen Leonhard amen'd this post.
  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Church is now apparently nonessential, like a bar or restaurant, but unlike the liquor store or cannabis store. Has the time passed by the idea church as an integral institution of western society?

    Any thoughts?
    It's not that church is non essential. It's that large groups of people meeting together in a confined space is dangerous to people outside the church itself. The church continues and will continue to make an impact on the world with or without the capacity for thousands to gather in a single space. It is silly to equate the church with that specific sort of gathering. We just adapt to our circumstances. My church is meeting in various ways using the streaming and meeting apps like zoom. We can still communicate with each other, we still can pray together and even take communion together. It's not ideal, but then again, neither is it a warranted risk to the broader community. See, if we meet like that we spread a disease that kills and we become not a minister of God's love and grace but ministers of death and foolishness. That is not what we are called to be.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  8. Amen mossrose amen'd this post.
  9. #27
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    This is a stupid question. They are trying to stop people spreading a deadly disease not destroy Christianity.
    I did not say, nor imply that anyone was trying to destroy Christianity.

  10. #28
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    It's not that church is non essential. It's that large groups of people meeting together in a confined space is dangerous to people outside the church itself. The church continues and will continue to make an impact on the world with or without the capacity for thousands to gather in a single space. It is silly to equate the church with that specific sort of gathering. We just adapt to our circumstances. My church is meeting in various ways using the streaming and meeting apps like zoom. We can still communicate with each other, we still can pray together and even take communion together. It's not ideal, but then again, neither is it a warranted risk to the broader community. See, if we meet like that we spread a disease that kills and we become not a minister of God's love and grace but ministers of death and foolishness. That is not what we are called to be.
    This is a discussion forum, and I do believe that discussion has value; I also believe that Christianity has value, and that there is great value in discussing the faith. The part of your post in bold is central to the Christian faith, in my opinion. Most would agree with the bold part, but few will articulate why those things have value. I think it worthwhile to examine our beliefs, that does not mean that I am denigrating the faith.

    Just why is communicating, prayer, and communion important, and why is it central to Christian worship?

  11. #29
    tWebber
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    What is the priority of the Church?

    One the one hand, we have the safety and security, which are important goods. But those are still material and earthly goods. Should we fear that which can destroy the body but not the soul?

    Yes, people did meet in secret in the early years of Christianity, they met in spite of the risks to the body; and we see that as heroic. Under the communists (and sometimes the Nazis) people defied authority at great personal risk

    Should we reassess how we view those people, some of whom were heroes of the faith and martyrs?

    Even the godless city of Nowa Huta held masses without a building. The Easter Triduum us almost upon us.

    St Corona, Pray for us!

  12. #30
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    What is the priority of the Church?

    One the one hand, we have the safety and security, which are important goods. But those are still material and earthly goods. Should we fear that which can destroy the body but not the soul?

    Yes, people did meet in secret in the early years of Christianity, they met in spite of the risks to the body; and we see that as heroic. Under the communists (and sometimes the Nazis) people defied authority at great personal risk

    Should we reassess how we view those people, some of whom were heroes of the faith and martyrs?

    Even the godless city of Nowa Huta held masses without a building. The Easter Triduum us almost upon us.

    St Corona, Pray for us!
    There is an important difference between accepting "great personal risk" and accepting risks to others. You are not a martyr or a hero of faith if what you do as a healty person who would most likely be able to survive the virus could be the cause that others who are not able to survive it will have to die. And that, unfortunately, is what we are talking about in this case.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

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