Page 10 of 19 FirstFirst ... 89101112 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 189

Thread: Church nonessential?

  1. #91
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    14,487
    Amen (Given)
    32
    Amen (Received)
    1400
    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    "We are in this together"? If only...

    Cuomo spent today explaining how shifting of medical supplies and equipment could work (the reality will be difficult to navigate), using the logistics to supply areas in great need (most of the state have few covid-19 cases), then returning the material when need arises. It is Republican assemblymen opposing this.

    Cuomo will need to use the bully pulpit to push his idea, an idea which makes sense in this time of need.
    Yes it does. And we ARE in this together...
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  2. #92
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,471
    Amen (Given)
    340
    Amen (Received)
    1317
    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    There is no room for tribalism in Christian faith. We stand for the truth and with the truth, period. If you speak the truth I can stand with you, if you don't, I can't. So it doesn't matter if Xi is a Christian, an atheist, a bootlegger, a prostitute, a great leader, whatever you think he is. I will defend the truth about him, and I will rebuke a lie about him. It's that simple.

    The origin of this virus has little to do with belief. It arose on its own.

    The fact this virus made it into the broader world may be attributable to China's actions, maybe, maybe not. They did make mistakes. They did try to hide things. So maybe if they hadn't it would have taken longer to get here. But I doubt very much it would not have eventually gotten here. It is far more transmissible than SARS and MERS, and it has this nasty bit of not doing much of anything to some but being transmissible at the same time, creating lots and lots of 'typhoid Mary's'. Some people die a horrible death. Others think maybe, just maybe they have a mild cold.

    But once here, their potential liability stops, and what happened here is our own governments fault, especially the leader that ignored the advice of the experts on what was needed to defeat it, and those efforts made to minimize or undermine our preparedness for a general pandemic before or during this administration.

    But given so many in this country acted as buffoons and fools in terms of the response to this virus and were themselves Christians means that to try to blame this on an Atheist ideology when people living as Christians were even more foolish and stupid is insane. There are STILL Christians on this website trying to pretend this is no big deal!

    As I outlined in my post, the is no rational reason to believe Xi is responsible for what has happened in the US or in the world. It is a naturally occurring virus, and any mistakes the Chinese government made containing it did not force us to be fools and ignore it for too long. That was our own doing.
    So, just to be clear so everyone can see your stance, you're in agreement with carp when he said "religion is fast moving towards doing more harm than good?" And he said that in the full context of the global pandemic spread. Because that's what I was defending against. I'm sure what you're defending.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  3. #93
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    14,487
    Amen (Given)
    32
    Amen (Received)
    1400
    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    So, just to be clear so everyone can see your stance, you're in agreement with carp when he said "religion is fast moving towards doing more harm than good?" And he said that in the full context of the global pandemic spread. Because that's what I was defending against. I'm sure what you're defending.
    Just to be clear - you are linking my statement too closely to the pandemic. The pandemic is only one data point that leads me to that conclusion. I also listed the support for Trump (which has been true for 4+ years now) and I could list other things as well. In other words, I gave two examples.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  4. #94
    tWebber
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,150
    Amen (Given)
    1
    Amen (Received)
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Yes it does. And we ARE in this together...
    Yes we are in this together, unfortunately not all recognize this, which was my point. The fact is that many of those resisting this are conservatives who are enthusiastically endorsed by Christians. And yes I am conservative. And I am Christian.

    Maybe this is a test, a chastisement of sorts, from the divine. If it is, I think that the Lord is disappointed in the response from those who proudly carry the Christian label. This sentence was rhetorical, intended for the audience which is Christian, not for the atheists.

  5. #95
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Maryland
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,415
    Amen (Given)
    692
    Amen (Received)
    1995
    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    So, just to be clear so everyone can see your stance, you're in agreement with carp when he said "religion is fast moving towards doing more harm than good?" And he said that in the full context of the global pandemic spread. Because that's what I was defending against. I'm sure what you're defending.
    Don't be absurd. I've given a response to that to Carpe already, I guess you didn't read it. There is, however, a horribly non-christian aversion to scientific knowledge in the dominant form of evangelical Christianity in this county. As well as a pervasive abandonment of basic Christian tenets and moral teaching as part of supporting this particular administration.

    And THAT has produced an astounding level of ignorance and foolishness withing the US evangelical community WRT this virus and this pandemic.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  6. #96
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,471
    Amen (Given)
    340
    Amen (Received)
    1317
    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Don't be absurd. I've given a response to that to Carpe already, I guess you didn't read it. There is, however, a horribly non-christian aversion to scientific knowledge in the dominant form of evangelical Christianity in this county. As well as a pervasive abandonment of basic Christian tenets and moral teaching as part of supporting this particular administration.

    And THAT has produced an astounding level of ignorance and foolishness withing the US evangelical community WRT this virus and this pandemic.
    It's clear you'll gladly throw Christianity under the bus in a heartbeat just to appease your TDS obsessive satiation and your hatred of evangelical Christianity. You can deny it until you're blue in the face, but everyone here knows it, and now they see the lengths you'll resort to. My job is done.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  7. Amen Mountain Man amen'd this post.
  8. #97
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    14,487
    Amen (Given)
    32
    Amen (Received)
    1400
    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Yes we are in this together, unfortunately not all recognize this, which was my point. The fact is that many of those resisting this are conservatives who are enthusiastically endorsed by Christians. And yes I am conservative. And I am Christian.

    Maybe this is a test, a chastisement of sorts, from the divine. If it is, I think that the Lord is disappointed in the response from those who proudly carry the Christian label. This sentence was rhetorical, intended for the audience which is Christian, not for the atheists.
    But at least one atheist will respond...


    Much of Christianity has lost its luster, Sim. Look at so many of the responses here (and elsewhere) to so many issues. Take the sending of medical supplies to other countries. The general consensus I see here is "us first, then send them any surplus." Indeed, that has increasingly been the mantra about so many things: us first! Yet I seem to recall a story from the NT about the poor woman who dropped two copper coins in the collection box after a wealthy man had dropped a purse full of gold, and Jesus is said to have pointed out that she was the more generous because she gave of her need while he gave of his excess. But now we are to give of our excess only? Me first? When did that become the Christian way?

    Much of Christianity has given way to a toxic form of Christianity I simply do not recognize and would NEVER return to. The NT describes Jesus in various modes: angry, sad, happy, celebrating, chastising, teaching, suffering, and so forth. But far too many Christians are taking the more negative part of the stories about this man and making them his defining narrative. They can troll and ridicule because Jesus tossed the money changers out of the temple. They can call names and bully because Jesus rebuked the Pharisees and Sadducees.

    Further, they have turned "science" into an ugly word, and then proceed to live a form of hypocrisy that is mind-numbing: rejecting the findings of science when they are inconvenient yet living each and every day with the technological benefits that science produces. And they will be rescued from the pandemic by the same science they discount and discard. In the process, they put themselves and everyone around them at risk. Today it's by holding large group meetings in the face of an easily transmittable disease that is currently a global pandemic. When this is over it will be by denying the science that tells us our planet is warming dangerously and we are mostly the cause and we need to address it.

    And what is the defense for both? Why the economy, of course! When did money become the defining metric for Christianity? And before you tell me I am judging the whole by a small part, this dynamic is VERY widespread. The Catholic church responds to the child abuse issues by protecting its money. The evangelicals get behind a morally bankrupt man like Trump and one of their primary reasons is money (in the form of the economy). Now we need to ignore social distancing because of money - again in the form of the economy. And don't get me started on asylum and immigration.

    I believe there is no god. Therefore, in my view, entire communities that believe in a god and live accordingly are living separated from the truth. That separation makes them vulnerable to the next charismatic speaker that takes to the pulpit and gives them a story about their god and what this god wants that makes them feel good. If they happen to get a good preacher, we get charity and generosity and good will. If they happen to get a bad one we get the crusades, the inquisition, the Westboro Baptist Church, and Jimmy Jones. It's a dice roll as to which will happen.

    As I mentioned to Jim, historically I think the case could have been made that religion did more good than ill. A great deal of that was around helping people find a moral center. But that is now largely lost and religion has become a kind of obstacle to human advancement and improvement - and it has become, IMO, badly corrupted.

    That is why I said to the OP, "no." I do not think churches are essential. Indeed, I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that they are no longer desirable. I've never been "that kind of atheist." But then again, I was never a person who wanted to see the 2nd Amendment repealed either - and now I am. Ironically, it was people here who convinced me of that. And it is also, in part, people here who are convincing me daily that religion has become a form of poison in human society.

    I guess I gave you that answer after all, Jim. I do not mean it to be combative or condescending. But it is the way my mind and heart are increasingly leaning.
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 04-03-2020 at 04:21 PM.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  9. Amen EvoUK amen'd this post.
  10. #98
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Maryland
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,415
    Amen (Given)
    692
    Amen (Received)
    1995
    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    It's clear you'll gladly throw Christianity under the bus in a heartbeat just to appease your TDS obsessive satiation and your hatred of evangelical Christianity. You can deny it until you're blue in the face, but everyone here knows it, and now they see the lengths you'll resort to. My job is done.
    What people here know is that I stand against Trump when he violates basic moral principles (which is fairly often unfortunately) and that I stand for the teachings of Christ. Unfortunately, many of you don't like that. But I am not driven by what you like, but by what Christ taught. It is what it is.

    As for hatred of Evangelical Christianity - you are bordering on insane there. I am an Evangelical Christian. My church has missions all over the world and here in our local community. I believe in sharing the Gospel to the whole world. What I am against, however, is the same thing Augustine was against. Christians that glory in their ignorance as some sort of badge of faith. And unfortunately in the US, evangelical faith has being entangled with certain specific and distorted political views that are in many ways contrary to Christ's teachings, and with a sort of scientific ignorance about the world that makes them say and do a lot of unnecessarily stupid things. And that has taken its toll on the Faith and on our capacity to do the very Evangelism we claim we are about.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  11. #99
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    14,487
    Amen (Given)
    32
    Amen (Received)
    1400
    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    What people here know is that I stand against Trump when he violates basic moral principles (which is fairly often unfortunately) and that I stand for the teachings of Christ. Unfortunately, many of you don't like that. But I am not driven by what you like, but by what Christ taught. It is what it is.

    As for hatred of Evangelical Christianity - you are bordering on insane there. I am an Evangelical Christian. My church has missions all over the world and here in our local community. I believe in sharing the Gospel to the whole world. What I am against, however, is the same thing Augustine was against. Christians that glory in their ignorance as some sort of badge of faith. And unfortunately in the US, evangelical faith has being entangled with certain specific and distorted political views that are in many ways contrary to Christ's teachings, and with a sort of scientific ignorance about the world that makes them say and do a lot of unnecessarily stupid things. And that has taken its toll on the Faith and on our capacity to do the very Evangelism we claim we are about.
    Sorry, Jim. It appears our detente has gotten you in hot water. If it will help, I could call you names and denounce your parentage?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  12. #100
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,943
    Amen (Given)
    251
    Amen (Received)
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    Rodney Howard-Brown is a heretical WoF false prophet and he should be held accountable for more than holding this service.
    Huh, didn't know he was Word of Faith. That would explain him not taking the virus seriously. But what exactly makes him a "false prophet"? Has he claimed to be a prophet anywhere?

    But I also think that those who follow him and met together knowing they should not be meeting together should be held accountable for attending the service. Nobody held a gun to their heads as far as I know.
    In cases like this, where it would probably be such a headache to charge everyone involved (especially when the crime is, legally speaking, not major), it makes sense to only go after the ringleader.

    Further, he wasn't arrested during the service, so to arrest everyone who attended it, the police would have to go through the rigamarole of actually figuring out who attended in order to arrest them, which would be a lot of time to devote to something that would accomplish so little.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •