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Church nonessential?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    And BTW, I fully acknowledge my own hypocrisy in this matter. For various reasons, including a bit of social anxiety I've developed, I have not "gone to church" regularly in some years.
    That is not hypocrisy. You are allowed to hold your opinion regardles of that.

    I disagree with you with you and I think it would be wrong - given the actual knowledge we have got - for people to meet in church or in other religious communities putting other people's life at risk.
    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      Would you consider church to be essential/indispensable for yourself, essential/indespensable for christianity, or essential/indispensable for society as a whole?
      Both.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
        They met. Neither the size of the gathering nor the physical setting matters. What matters is the sort of human interaction that can't be replaced by a screen.
        That's true. But I consider this a temporary situation. Are you suggesting that we continue to gather in large groups during this time of infection?




        I believe this will lead to an increased tendency toward insularism, and the idea that church is all about music and message, and not about real fellowship and interaction.

        Maybe. Maybe not. People might be so thankful to gather together again that there will be no difference in how it will be then than it was before.


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by simplicio View Post
          But was is the question "Is church nonessential" a leading question? In case you have not read the news, church is effectively treated as nonessential.
          I think churches are being treated as a place where large bodies of people gather and thus need to be closed.
          "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

          "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
            I think churches are being treated as a place where large bodies of people gather and thus need to be closed.
            Man cannot live by bread alone.

            We are finding ways to respect the social distancing directives, is it possible to include social distancing with communal worship?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
              Both.
              A very brief answer.

              Is the whole idea of communal worship just some chance for the Lord to judge us, or does it perform a real function for the Body of Christ?

              Masses without the faithful will soon lead to a country without masses https://www.firstthings.com/web-excl...hops-of-france

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              • #22
                Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                Man cannot live by bread alone.

                We are finding ways to respect the social distancing directives, is it possible to include social distancing with communal worship?
                Probably not.
                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                  A very brief answer.
                  Yes, but you asked and I thought the answer is simple. I lean on the history and tradition of the Church. Mostly because I'm a Catholic.

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                  • #24
                    This is a stupid question. They are trying to stop people spreading a deadly disease not destroy Christianity.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      This is a stupid question. They are trying to stop people spreading a deadly disease not destroy Christianity.
                      I would not call it stupid but I agree with you. I don't think one should put too much into calling it nonessential. I would not interpret that as a statement that church is not essential but rather that it is not essential for churchgoes to gather physically for this limited time period. At my job I am among those who are not "essential". I don't take that personally at all. What it means is that it is not essential for me to be present physically in order to do my job. I can do my job at home and I do so with the challenges and strange situations it causes.
                      "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                        Church is now apparently nonessential, like a bar or restaurant, but unlike the liquor store or cannabis store. Has the time passed by the idea church as an integral institution of western society?

                        Any thoughts?
                        It's not that church is non essential. It's that large groups of people meeting together in a confined space is dangerous to people outside the church itself. The church continues and will continue to make an impact on the world with or without the capacity for thousands to gather in a single space. It is silly to equate the church with that specific sort of gathering. We just adapt to our circumstances. My church is meeting in various ways using the streaming and meeting apps like zoom. We can still communicate with each other, we still can pray together and even take communion together. It's not ideal, but then again, neither is it a warranted risk to the broader community. See, if we meet like that we spread a disease that kills and we become not a minister of God's love and grace but ministers of death and foolishness. That is not what we are called to be.
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          This is a stupid question. They are trying to stop people spreading a deadly disease not destroy Christianity.
                          I did not say, nor imply that anyone was trying to destroy Christianity.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            It's not that church is non essential. It's that large groups of people meeting together in a confined space is dangerous to people outside the church itself. The church continues and will continue to make an impact on the world with or without the capacity for thousands to gather in a single space. It is silly to equate the church with that specific sort of gathering. We just adapt to our circumstances. My church is meeting in various ways using the streaming and meeting apps like zoom. We can still communicate with each other, we still can pray together and even take communion together. It's not ideal, but then again, neither is it a warranted risk to the broader community. See, if we meet like that we spread a disease that kills and we become not a minister of God's love and grace but ministers of death and foolishness. That is not what we are called to be.
                            This is a discussion forum, and I do believe that discussion has value; I also believe that Christianity has value, and that there is great value in discussing the faith. The part of your post in bold is central to the Christian faith, in my opinion. Most would agree with the bold part, but few will articulate why those things have value. I think it worthwhile to examine our beliefs, that does not mean that I am denigrating the faith.

                            Just why is communicating, prayer, and communion important, and why is it central to Christian worship?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              What is the priority of the Church?

                              One the one hand, we have the safety and security, which are important goods. But those are still material and earthly goods. Should we fear that which can destroy the body but not the soul?

                              Yes, people did meet in secret in the early years of Christianity, they met in spite of the risks to the body; and we see that as heroic. Under the communists (and sometimes the Nazis) people defied authority at great personal risk

                              Should we reassess how we view those people, some of whom were heroes of the faith and martyrs?

                              Even the godless city of Nowa Huta held masses without a building. The Easter Triduum us almost upon us.

                              St Corona, Pray for us!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                                What is the priority of the Church?

                                One the one hand, we have the safety and security, which are important goods. But those are still material and earthly goods. Should we fear that which can destroy the body but not the soul?

                                Yes, people did meet in secret in the early years of Christianity, they met in spite of the risks to the body; and we see that as heroic. Under the communists (and sometimes the Nazis) people defied authority at great personal risk

                                Should we reassess how we view those people, some of whom were heroes of the faith and martyrs?

                                Even the godless city of Nowa Huta held masses without a building. The Easter Triduum us almost upon us.

                                St Corona, Pray for us!
                                There is an important difference between accepting "great personal risk" and accepting risks to others. You are not a martyr or a hero of faith if what you do as a healty person who would most likely be able to survive the virus could be the cause that others who are not able to survive it will have to die. And that, unfortunately, is what we are talking about in this case.
                                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                                Comment

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