Special place in hell (for preterists)

[Darfius]

All you did was show that some areas, generally rural, weren't Hellenized and not demonstrate that "Hellenistic" ≠ "Greek"

Scripture Verse: Acts 9

28 So Saul stayed with them and moved about freely in Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord. 29 He talked and debated with the Hellenistic Jews, but they tried to kill him.

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[Darfius]

I'm right there with you Sean. As I've seen futurist arguments, I've become more and more convinced I was right to abandon it. And speaking of hostile...the OP wonders why no one actually engages him anymore. If you believe as Darfius does that unless you're a futurist, you're going to hell, then you will also be mostly ignored. The old adage of "People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care" is IMO very true. There are preterists answers to a lot of challenges I see posted here, that I find sound and true to God's word, but, if you believe the Blood of Jesus Christ has washed away your sins and you are living for Him in everything you do, does it really matter if when He returns there will be a Tribulation? If there is, and you're truly a believer, that will not change. But if when He returns, that's it, I pity all those who thought they would recognize the times and would repent when actually, there will no longer be time because it's over, who will then be the false witness that gets the blame?

I don't "wonder why people won't engage me". I said it's because I'm right, they're wrong and they wish to admit neither, because they have no love for the truth. And it is impossible to be "living for Him in everything you do" and maintain a belief in lies when the truth is pointed out. You are deluding yourself. And in the time of great delusion, deluding yourself doesn't make your future look too bright. Repent.

The last of what you said was nervous gibberish, but obviously I care about you or I would leave you to die in your sins. What you really mean to say is "Darfius, tickle my ears like the pastor I pay to be my therapist or I am not interested." Which speaks for itself, don't it?

[seanD]

You know what happens when people assume, yes?

There are two events described in 1 Thess; the end of chapter 4 is a different literary unit than the beginning of chapter 5, raising a different subject (note that 4:9, 4:13, and 5:1 use identical language in introducing their new subject). The beginning of chapter 5 is describing the same event as the OD, yes. What does that have to do with your ignorance?

Both chapters are talking about the same event (as you know there were no chapters and verses in the original manuscript). 1 Thess 5 is reiterating on the event from 4. In 4 -- "this will happen." In 5 -- "but know one knows exactly what day this event will happen." It's the same event.

[Darfius]

Fair or not, my impression of the currently fashionable evangelical scholar, Michael Heiser, is that he does the same thing as Darfius is doing in this thread - correctly sheds light on the background of some of what is referenced in the Bible; in this case, the Greek background of Tartarus, but then uses that to then smuggle in the assumption that the Bible then affirms as true what is said about these other things. The same thing could be said about 1 Enoch; people notice that it is cited in Jude, but then extrapolate from this that everything else said in that book must be true. For starters, no serious scholar that I'm aware of thinks that 1 Enoch was actually written by Enoch, but rather that it was written several millennia after Genesis takes place.

Why would Peter give a separate location for the bound angels than the mass of human damned in Hades? One reason would be to illustrate his point about the folly of rebellion against God, but another would be to illustrate other portions of Scripture with his own divinely inspired information. "The Greeks have it half right. Tartarus exists, but not for 'gods', at least not real ones. It is the place God has reserved the rebellious angels ('gods') for judgment." And this after in verse 3 he has condemned "false teachers who exploit the church with fabricated stories." God inspired him to introduce the idea of Tartarus for a reason, the most logical reason being that it is a real place meant to imprison a real group, which group he gives as the rebellious angels whose rebellion is narrated in Genesis 6.

[Darth Executor]

Assuming I believe you (and that's a real stretch for me to do because it's just totally illogical to believe that about that passage), what makes you think Jesus was using symbolism there? The OD is not at all like Rev, which is arguably rife with at least some metaphor and symbolism. There's no indication anywhere in the entire discourse he was using coded words or symbolism as opposed to telling it straight forward and just how things would happen. Why should I believe he all of a sudden switches to symbolism only at that moment?

Is this a joke? Do you think the elect are gonna be literally riding around on the "four winds" when Jesus calls them?

You also have another problem, because if everything Jesus says there is literal truth, "truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened" did not happen and Jesus is a liar. So regardless of whether you are a preterist or not, Matthew 24 must contain SOME non-literal truth.

[Darfius]

Likewise, on Mars' Hill Paul quotes the Greek poet Aratus' Phaenomena in Acts 17:28, Menander's Thais in I Corinthians 15:33 and, in Titus 1:12, "One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own" (identified as Epimenides by Clement of Alexandria in his Stromata). Further when Paul refers to kicking against the pricks or goads in Acts 26:14 that term comes from Aeschylus' Agamemnon and FWIU, according to Origen, his references to Jannes & Jambres (2 Timothy 3:8) is from an apocryphal book, according to Origen.

Obviously that doesn't mean Christians should therefore consider Phaenomena, Thais, Agamemnon and whichever of Epimenides' works are therefore divinely inspired

But do you dispute that Jannes and Jambres were the names of the magicians who disputed with Moses and Aaron? I would venture not, and so the point is, Tartarus is also a real place with a real group of prisoners, the existence of which disproves the "naturalistic", "symbolic" interpretation preterists wish to give Revelation.

[Darfius]

I'll be interested in discussing things with you when you become more interested in attempting to understand my position (if only to thereby refute it) than you are in being an unmitigated ass. All you're managing to convince me of here is that I want no part in your conception of eternity.

More "wahhhhhhhhhh, I'll repent when you beg me just right" nonsense. Entitled American. As if what you "want part in" matters in the slightest. There is truth and there are lies. Those who believe lies and liars have their place in the lake of fire.

[Littlejoe]

I don't "wonder why people won't engage me". I said it's because I'm right, they're wrong and they wish to admit neither, because they have no love for the truth. And it is impossible to be "living for Him in everything you do" and maintain a belief in lies when the truth is pointed out. You are deluding yourself. And in the time of great delusion, deluding yourself doesn't make your future look too bright. Repent.

No, they think you're looney tunes and an jackass, that's why they don't engage you. As for maintaining a belief in lies...physician heal thyself. You need to stop sowing heresy and embrace the truth and repent...or at least realize that endtimes isn't the end all an be all of being a Christ follower.

The last of what you said was nervous gibberish, but obviously I care about you or I would leave you to die in your sins. What you really mean to say is "Darfius, tickle my ears like the pastor I pay to be my therapist or I am not interested." Which speaks for itself, don't it?

What it speaks of is Darfius is terrible at mind reading and of course knows nothing of my life. Nervous? No brother, the spittle on your chin is you trying to convince yourself your right and hope we will confirm it...But, your wrong. You need to look in the mirror and realize that you're a jackass moron who doesn't know his rear from a hole in the ground and actually examine with an open mind instead of only studying just enough to try to disprove something.

[seanD]

Is this a joke? Do you think the elect are gonna be literally riding around on the "four winds" when Jesus calls them?

You also have another problem, because if everything Jesus says there is literal truth, "truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened" did not happen and Jesus is a liar. So regardless of whether you are a preterist or not, Matthew 24 must contain SOME non-literal truth.

The "this generation" has been covered in other threads.

[Darfius]

No, they think you're looney tunes and an jackass, that's why they don't engage you. As for maintaining a belief in lies...physician heal thyself. You need to stop sowing heresy and embrace the truth and repent...or at least realize that endtimes isn't the end all an be all of being a Christ follower.

What "heresy" have I sowed? And as for the endtimes "not being the end all and be all of being a Christ follower."

Scripture Verse: 2 Thessalonians 2

5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time [endtime]. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

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They perish because they "refused to love the truth." Sounds like loving the truth is the "be all and end all to me." Doesn't sound like you can walk around with your head up your butt while claiming with your lips that you love Christ, accept the mark because "these aren't the endtimes" and still be saved. That sounds like a delusion to me.

Scripture Verse: Revelation 14

9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

© Copyright Original Source

What could be more "end all and be all" than this scenario? What Scripture says isn't aligning with your hysterical claims to the contrary. Which is probably why you and the rest of the mouth running brigade never reference or quote Scripture. But you love God and His word, right?

What it speaks of is Darfius is terrible at mind reading and of course knows nothing of my life. Nervous? No brother, the spittle on your chin is you trying to convince yourself your right and hope we will confirm it...But, your wrong. You need to look in the mirror and realize that you're a jackass moron who doesn't know his rear from a hole in the ground and actually examine with an open mind instead of only studying just enough to try to disprove something.

You mad, bro?

[Darth Executor]

The "this generation" has been covered in other threads.

Give me the cliffs' notes version (also Jesus says quite a bit more than just "this generation" to make it clear who He is talking to).

[Darfius]

Give me the cliffs' notes version (also Jesus says quite a bit more than just "this generation" to make it clear who He is talking to).

Wanting the "cliffs' notes version" rather than the whole truth is why you're a preterist. Do the legwork.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...his-generation

[One Bad Pig]

Both chapters are talking about the same event (as you know there were no chapters and verses in the original manuscript). 1 Thess 5 is reiterating on the event from 4. In 4 -- "this will happen." In 5 -- "but know one knows exactly what day this event will happen." It's the same event.

Next time, attempt to comprehend my argument before responding. Thanks.

[One Bad Pig]

More "wahhhhhhhhhh, I'll repent when you beg me just right" nonsense. Entitled American.

Your entirely and deliberately offensive and inaccurate "argument" is duly noted. I'm beginning to think you couldn't argue yourself out of a wet paper bag, know this, and substitute offense for content. Ta.

[Darth Executor]

Wanting the "cliffs' notes version" rather than the whole truth is why you're a preterist. Do the legwork.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...his-generation

If I wanted your opinion I would have asked you.