Crew on U.S. Aircraft carrier test positive for Coronavirus.

[simplicio]

He could have not copied private individuals outside of the chain of command. He could have talked to his own superior who was on the same ship.

The military is funny about that whole chain of command thingy. strange.

I think he only sent it to Navy personnel, not anyone outside the Navy. Someone in the Navy leaked it to the newspaper.

The Navy did not make a decision to evacuate for over four days after they knew that it was spreading. After the Diamond Princess fiasco, the whole world knew what covid-19 spreading on a crowded ship meant. And US Navy warships do not have similar accommodations that a cruise liner has, there aren't many private rooms, nor individual bathroom facilities.

The Navy did not make a decision until after it was leaked. Crozier had a career in the Navy, he knew the chain of command and respected it. No one would abandon the very principles they lived by for about three decades of their life.

[Sparko]

I think he only sent it to Navy personnel, not anyone outside the Navy. Someone in the Navy leaked it to the newspaper.

He sent it unencrypted to over 20 recipients.

Modly said Crozier could have “walked down the hall” to his immediate boss, the admiral in charge of the carrier’s strike group, or expressed his concerns in one of his conversations with Modly’s chief of staff. Instead, Crozier sent his March 30 letter over unsecure email to multiple Navy leaders in and outside his chain of command, and it made its way to the San Francisco Chronicle, which published it on Tuesday.
https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2...letter/164336/
https://www.businessinsider.com/uss-...d-email-2020-4

The Navy did not make a decision to evacuate for over four days after they knew that it was spreading. After the Diamond Princess fiasco, the whole world knew what covid-19 spreading on a crowded ship meant. And US Navy warships do not have similar accommodations that a cruise liner has, there aren't many private rooms, nor individual bathroom facilities.

The Navy did not make a decision until after it was leaked. Crozier had a career in the Navy, he knew the chain of command and respected it. No one would abandon the very principles they lived by for about three decades of their life.

And yet he did. Maybe he panicked. Maybe he felt the Navy wasn't moving fast enough. Maybe he felt trading his career for his crew's well being was a good trade. I think he did the right thing, but just in the wrong way. I admire his dedication to his crew. But I also understand the Navy's decision. Maybe they will reinstate him at the hearing.

[simplicio]

He sent it unencrypted to over 20 recipients.

Modly said Crozier could have “walked down the hall” to his immediate boss, the admiral in charge of the carrier’s strike group, or expressed his concerns in one of his conversations with Modly’s chief of staff. Instead, Crozier sent his March 30 letter over unsecure email to multiple Navy leaders in and outside his chain of command, and it made its way to the San Francisco Chronicle, which published it on Tuesday.
https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2...letter/164336/
https://www.businessinsider.com/uss-...d-email-2020-4

And yet he did. Maybe he panicked. Maybe he felt the Navy wasn't moving fast enough. Maybe he felt trading his career for his crew's well being was a good trade. I think he did the right thing, but just in the wrong way. I admire his dedication to his crew. But I also understand the Navy's decision. Maybe they will reinstate him at the hearing.

Do you really think that he had not "walked it down the hall to his immediate boss" before posting the mass email? I sincerely doubt that the email was hacked, though that is a possibility. I think it much more likely that someone in the Navy gave it to the paper.

The Navy only made the decision after the paper published the email, not before. The close quarters of shipboard life makes for perfect conditions, and we have seen the problems on cruise ships.

If he hadn't sent the email, would the Navy have made the decision, a decision that they had days to decide?

I find it unlikely that a Navy Captain would panic.

Added in edit: The only way he could be reinstated would be to toss out Modley.

[JimL]

He could have not copied private individuals outside of the chain of command. He could have talked to his own superior who was on the same ship.

The military is funny about that whole chain of command thingy. strange.

I highly doubt Captain Crozier went outside of the chain of command until he was left with no other choice. Why would he not bring it to the attention of his immediate superiors. Of course he did. Not doing so just doesn't happen. He obviously knew his career was on the line and was left with no choice.

[firstfloor]

Modly apologises. I think he should walk the plank, or be keel hauled, or suffer some other naval punishment.

[simplicio]

I highly doubt Captain Crozier went outside of the chain of command until he was left with no other choice. Why would he not bring it to the attention of his immediate superiors. Of course he did. Not doing so just doesn't happen. He obviously knew his career was on the line and was left with no choice.

Hold it right there. We had a major warship with SARS-CoV-2 on board. That is a plague ship. What more information do you need? The Navy brass was aware of the situation for some four days.

The Navy took the crew off after the paper published the email, and everyone says that they made the right move. But if the Navy made that "right move" immediately?

Crozier was in the Navy for three decades, and was given an important assignment, there is no way he would have jumped the chain of command lightly, if that is even what he did. Copying in relevant personnel for an important decision is common.

The idea that the San Francisco paper hacked the unsecure, unencrypted email is ludicrous. Someone in the Navy gave the email to the paper. Why would anyone do that unless they feared the Navy would sit on its laurels in a bureaucratic dithering?

Crozier career was on the line every moment of his command, I doubt that nurturing his career was the only thing motivating him. The well being of his sailors, the need to avoid a disastrous response of the cruise ships (the most famous one is the Diamond Princess)

[Sparko]

Do you really think that he had not "walked it down the hall to his immediate boss" before posting the mass email?

He didn't. At least that is what the Navy is saying.

I sincerely doubt that the email was hacked, though that is a possibility. I think it much more likely that someone in the Navy gave it to the paper.

I never said it was hacked. I said he sent it unencrypted and to people outside his chain of command.

The Navy only made the decision after the paper published the email, not before. The close quarters of shipboard life makes for perfect conditions, and we have seen the problems on cruise ships.

If he hadn't sent the email, would the Navy have made the decision, a decision that they had days to decide?

I find it unlikely that a Navy Captain would panic.

Added in edit: The only way he could be reinstated would be to toss out Modley.

Trump said today that he thinks he is going to intervene on behalf of the Captain. He doesn't think someone with a stellar career should have to pay for having "a bad day"

How's it feel to agree with Trump? Need some bleach?

[demi-conservative]

Time for Navy Secretary to be fired again?

[Sparko]

Time for Navy Secretary to be fired again?

He just resigned.

So yet again, Trump wasn't behind the firing of the captain, like everyone was claiming, he was actually on the Captain's side. Poor liberals now have to face the fact that they are on Trump's side.

[Starlight]

Poor liberals now have to face the fact that they are on Trump's side.

Here's the most upvoted reddit common on the subject, so this will tell you how lots of liberals are seeing it (I haven't copied links to sources in the original):

Just to recap how insane this was, this was the sequence of events:

Feb 24th: CDC Deputy Directory Messonier mentions that a pandemic is likely to come to the US.

Feb 25th: The stock market crashes, Trump flips [...] out and demands total control over "messaging".

March 1st: Esper at DOD issues an order forbidding any significant action to protect servicemen that might "run afoul of the White House's messaging"

March 31st: Crozier, whose hands are tied by this order, in desperation to save the lives of his crewmen - and even as he himself became infected - makes pleas which become public and create pressure to dock his carrier.

April 5th: Crozier is removed.

April 6th: Modly, a sycophant, attacks Crozier for finding a way around the criminally negligent DOD order, which was originally necessitated by Trump's narcissistic lunacy.

April 6th: As a reward, Trump shoves a knife in his back. [In the link Trump publicly talks about what a great guy the captain was, and that maybe he shouldn't be fired over one issue]

April 7th: Modly resigns.

Sometimes, the Politburo purges you for clapping too little. Sometimes, the Politburo purges you for clapping too much.

I don't think you can spin this as liberals being on Trump's side. Liberals see this as yet another instance of total White House dysfunction and atrocious leadership leading to dangerous and deadly situations, over the top gagging of officials, absurd levels of demands for adherence to the dictates of the dear leader, absurd decisions reconsidered after massive public outcry, and resignations and firings.

[JimL]

He didn't. At least that is what the Navy is saying.

I never said it was hacked. I said he sent it unencrypted and to people outside his chain of command.



Trump said today that he thinks he is going to intervene on behalf of the Captain. He doesn't think someone with a stellar career should have to pay for having "a bad day"

How's it feel to agree with Trump? Need some bleach?

Trump is going to intercede on behalf of the Captain because he saw the hero's sendoff that the Captains crew gave him and realized what a political blunder he made by having the Captain fired. A wanabee dictator needs the military behind him.

[simplicio]

He didn't. At least that is what the Navy is saying.

that right there. I view that comment as analogous to saying that a thirty year member of the service is unfamiliar with the most basic customs and courtesies like saluting. There is no way that the brass was unaware of the situation on the ship.

The Navy dithered, not making any decision. The political dimension of this is obvious: To take the crew off a major warship would have contradicted the message and image this administration wanted to project.

I never said it was hacked. I said he sent it unencrypted and to people outside his chain of command.

What is the big deal over encryption then? Unencrypted messages are sent all the time. The email was sent to Navy personnel

Trump said today that he thinks he is going to intervene on behalf of the Captain. He doesn't think someone with a stellar career should have to pay for having "a bad day"

How's it feel to agree with Trump? Need some bleach?

Just how is Trump going to intervene? The man's career is dead, to give him back his command would be a direct slap in the face to the Navy. That was not a bad day for Crozier, it may have been his finest hour, to do what is right, regardless of the consequences. If Crozier had waited, he would have been in charge of what would probably have been one of the great disasters in US Naval history; the man is a product of Annapolis which emphasizes duty and honor.

A disease which spreads exponentially leaves little room for inaction. A disease which transmits so easily is a disaster on a warship. We saw what happens on a cruise ship, which at least assigns individual cabins and has broad passageways. And there are many examples of how not to handle disease on cruise ships.

Crozier contradicted the Trumpian narrative, that was his bad day.

[firstfloor]

This whole episode again shows that Trump is unfit to be anywhere near the White House. He continues to be a disgrace and embarrassment to the United States, and has no redeeming features that I can see.

[simplicio]

This whole episode again shows that Trump is unfit to be anywhere near the White House. He continues to be a disgrace and embarrassment to the United States, and has no redeeming features that I can see.

Quite a contrasting view to Trump as being The Annointed One to lead this great country away back to Christian ideals!

[Sparko]

Trump is going to intercede on behalf of the Captain because he saw the hero's sendoff that the Captains crew gave him and realized what a political blunder he made by having the Captain fired. A wanabee dictator needs the military behind him.

LOL even when Trump does what you guys think he should, you find a way to spin it to attack him anyway.