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  • #46
    Originally posted by simplicio View Post
    Is buying guns a reasoned response to an epidemic?
    More so than buying mountains of toilet paper instead of non-perishable food.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Ronson View Post
      More so than buying mountains of toilet paper instead of non-perishable food.
      You are right, that is an irrational response, and buying guns is more rational than stockpiling toilet paper!

      The Donald spent how long ignoring health care around the world on something so important that citizens need to arm themselves. Which is an admission that the administration's response was a callous disregard of the needs of citizens. On the day Trump boasted of the great corona virus testing in this country, New York was unable to test its front line workers and first responders. We could test the entire NBA and government elites, but never bothered to test where health professionals requested testing.

      If Trump was competent, would we need to buy more guns?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by simplicio View Post
        You are right, that is an irrational response, and buying guns is more rational than stockpiling toilet paper!

        The Donald spent how long ignoring health care around the world on something so important that citizens need to arm themselves.
        That's a convoluted conclusion. First, Trump was closing borders when no other country was doing so, and the "need to arm themselves" would be better described as an attempt to feel more secure in one's home. There hasn't been any increase in home-invasion robberies ... yet.

        Which is an admission that the administration's response was a callous disregard of the needs of citizens. On the day Trump boasted of the great corona virus testing in this country, New York was unable to test its front line workers and first responders. We could test the entire NBA and government elites, but never bothered to test where health professionals requested testing.
        This current test is mainly only helpful for people already in hospital. Elites testing themselves is a waste of time.

        If Trump was competent, would we need to buy more guns?
        There's that "need" assumption again. This same pandemic would have happened under Obama. The difference is that the latter probably would have made an executive order to shutter gun stores.
        Last edited by Ronson; 04-03-2020, 06:50 AM.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by simplicio View Post
          China was caught off guard.
          No China lied to the rest of the world as to how easily this virus was transmitted and allowed tens of thousands of their people to fly out of their country thereby infecting the rest of the world. And the Navy needed to fire Crozier, that kind of behavior is not allowed in the Military.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by simplicio View Post
            You are right, that is an irrational response, and buying guns is more rational than stockpiling toilet paper!
            Why is having firearms to protect yourself and family and to possibly hunt - irrational?


            If Trump was competent, would we need to buy more guns?
            Because the government can't always protect you. Especially when cities like NY are letting violent criminals out of prison.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Ronson View Post
              That's a convoluted conclusion. First, Trump was closing borders when no other country was doing so, and the "need to arm themselves" would be better described as an attempt to feel more secure in one's home. There hasn't been any increase in home-invasion robberies ... yet.



              This current test is mainly only helpful for people already in hospital. Elites testing themselves is a waste of time.



              There's that "need" assumption again. This same pandemic would have happened under Obama. The difference is that the latter probably would have made an executive order to shutter gun stores.
              A convoluted conclusion? I assume you are aware of the connotations of the use of ellipses followed by "yet". You are expecting some form of societal breakdown as a result of this epidemic.

              Testing allows us to collect data on which to make informed and rational decisions, to know the extent of the disease in the population. We are like China was, purposefully under representing the extent of the virus.

              There is no way to assess what a response from Obama would look like. I think the same political problems would exist, but the biggest thing is the approach of the two men to science. Neither men are scientists, but Obama did not have the deep distrust of conventional science which Trump has. Today we have citizens outraged that Fauci is undermining Trump by correcting his gaffes.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                No China lied to the rest of the world as to how easily this virus was transmitted and allowed tens of thousands of their people to fly out of their country thereby infecting the rest of the world. And the Navy needed to fire Crozier, that kind of behavior is not allowed in the Military.
                And just how is that different from policies in the US even now?

                Yes China lied to prevent panic. But those lies did not prevent countries like Singapore and Taiwan from using the information that did come out of China. It is not like China had months to study and understand this virus, they were dealing with something new, a novel virus. Allowing travelers in and out is analogous to allowing people to stand shoulder to shoulder at beaches, allowing students to come back to college dorms, analogous to Gov Justice posting "Go to Bob Evans and eat" or deblasio getting one more workout before closing gyms.

                I think it unlikely that Crozier went public as an initial response; the chain of command is ingrained. But to allow the Big Stick to become like the Diamond Princess is unthinkable, it is a warship and changing its nickname to the Princess would make it a laughing stock. Cozier made the right call, and knew the reprecussions.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                  A convoluted conclusion? I assume you are aware of the connotations of the use of ellipses followed by "yet". You are expecting some form of societal breakdown as a result of this epidemic.
                  I'm not expecting any; I don't own a gun and don't plan on buying one. The ellipses were for people who expect an increase in crime - NOT a "societal breakdown".

                  Testing allows us to collect data on which to make informed and rational decisions, to know the extent of the disease in the population. We are like China was, purposefully under representing the extent of the virus.
                  The current RNA tests that elites are using are worthless in their cases. It doesn't tell us anything , other than "Tom Hanks has been exposed!" We need antibody tests conducted on cross sections of the population.

                  There is no way to assess what a response from Obama would look like.
                  https://clarke.house.gov/oversight-p...-miami-herald/

                  I think the same political problems would exist, but the biggest thing is the approach of the two men to science. Neither men are scientists, but Obama did not have the deep distrust of conventional science which Trump has. Today we have citizens outraged that Fauci is undermining Trump by correcting his gaffes.
                  I agree Trump distrusts science - but that is probably because it is often hijacked and augmented by progressives for political goals. The "climate change" subject is owned by environmentalists. They grab some data, make the worst possible conclusion from it, and then call you a "denier" if you are skeptical.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                    And just how is that different from policies in the US even now?
                    WE are doing the best that we can.

                    Yes China lied to prevent panic. But those lies did not prevent countries like Singapore and Taiwan from using the information that did come out of China. It is not like China had months to study and understand this virus, they were dealing with something new, a novel virus. Allowing travelers in and out is analogous to allowing people to stand shoulder to shoulder at beaches, allowing students to come back to college dorms, analogous to Gov Justice posting "Go to Bob Evans and eat" or deblasio getting one more workout before closing gyms.
                    No simplicio China knew how infectious this was in November and allowed their people to fly out of the country in the tens of thousands for months afterward even from the Hubei province. We did not such thing!

                    I think it unlikely that Crozier went public as an initial response; the chain of command is ingrained. But to allow the Big Stick to become like the Diamond Princess is unthinkable, it is a warship and changing its nickname to the Princess would make it a laughing stock. Cozier made the right call, and knew the reprecussions.
                    As the Navy said, they were well aware of the problem before Crozier's sent his "non-secure unclassified email."
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by seanD View Post
                      Thinking this is best country in the world vs. a Mad Max scenario is a false dichotomy.
                      It's not a dichotomy at all.
                      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                        Yes China lied to prevent panic.
                        Oh, is that how we're spinning it now?

                        Did they also destroy lab samples, refuse help from other countries, and murder those who blew the whistle to prevent panic?
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          I didn't see anything in the CNN article about not responding to burglaries. I did see quotations about still responding to crimes in progress or threats to property.
                          I was referring to a consolidation of various reports I have read over the last week, not just that article.

                          The Chicago Police Department hopes to free up the equivalent of 44 officers a day by no longer dispatching cops for certain crimes, like burglaries and car thefts in which the offender is no longer at the scene and no one is in immediate danger. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...202-story.html

                          LOUISVILLE, Ky., (WDRB) – Louisville Metro Police will no longer respond to several emergency situations, including some burglaries and speeding, according to Louisville Metro Police Chief Steve Conrad. https://www.wdrb.com/in-depth/lmpd-t...f2d6fb288.html

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            I don't think it would be wise to publicize one's non-ownership of a gun at a time like this.

                            I had a former co-worker who collected guns and told me that if everything broke down, he would go after the homes of liberals because he didn't think they would be able to defend themselves.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                              Good point, MM. But it also points out that the administration was totally incompetent in handling this epidemic. It is bad enough that we need to arm ourselves, but Trump and his supporters are downplaying how serious it is.

                              https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ulture/609019/
                              Exactly what do you expect them to do differently to make you feel safer? Have the national guard patrol your neighborhood?

                              Have you never seen how people act during an emergency, like a hurricane or flood? They rob, loot, steal and hoarde. The police can't be everywhere, so it is up to you to protect yourself. Even when the police are available, by the time they get to your home during a home invasion, or burglary, it's too late. It's over.

                              All you seem to do is criticize. Criticize Trump, Christians, etc. Why don't you go do something constructive? Go help your fellow man.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                                A lot of American men fantasise about being the Lone Ranger, who had two six shooters. That’s the whole deal.
                                Six shooter? Pah. My pistol holds 17 rounds and can be reloaded in a split second with a second mag.

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