America first?

[Charles]

I Timothy 5:8, no matter how you seek to twist it.

Yeah, that is one of the least likely verses to be twisted while this one is one of the most likely:

Luke 14:25-26

Large crowds were now traveling with Jesus, and He turned and said to them, 26“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters— yes, even his own life— he cannot be My disciple.

I am sure you will apply some context to make Luke say something else while there is certainly no context, and by all mens not Luke (!) that could change the meaning of Timothy 5:8.

Oh, the art of applying "context" is so beautiful. That's the way you twist it.

[Charles]

I Timothy 5:8, no matter how you seek to twist it.

The irony is that if you are using it defend ideas about how nation states should cooperate and share you are already twisting it. You might want to read it again:

1 Timothy 5:8

Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

But perhaps all Americans are your relatives while no Canadians are.

"no matter how you seek to twist it"

[rogue06]

Praise the Lord that not everyone, and not all Christians have that selfish view. Where does it end, where does it lead us? The hospitals in Canada face the same needs we do.

Push hardship on others less fortunate, less able, is hardly consistent with a Christian worldview.

Being told that we should first take care of our own first is now "selfish" even when we are explicitly told to do so?

[simplicio]

Being told that we should first take care of our own first is now "selfish" even when we are explicitly told to do so?

And just how is that principle put into action?

Should we shut off the flow of supplies to Canada? Seems everyone is avoiding that.

In New York State, Cuomo is being criticized for appropriating and allocating the resources, and receiving quite a bit of push back from conservatives. His model is to allocate the resources where they are needed where they can be put to use and shifted across the state as needs change.

[rogue06]

And just how is that principle put into action?

Should we shut off the flow of supplies to Canada? Seems everyone is avoiding that.

In New York State, Cuomo is being criticized for appropriating and allocating the resources, and receiving quite a bit of push back from conservatives. His model is to allocate the resources where they are needed where they can be put to use and shifted across the state as needs change.

The obvious first question is do we have a surplus? If not then we'll have to wait until we do before we can (although a case could be made that Canuckistan is family).

And it appears that Cuomo might be building up a stockpile rather than distributing them. If true, what is he waiting for?

[rogue06]

Yeah, that is one of the least likely verses to be twisted while this one is one of the most likely:

Luke 14:25-26


I am sure you will apply some context to make Luke say something else while there is certainly no context, and by all mens not Luke (!) that could change the meaning of Timothy 5:8.

Oh, the art of applying "context" is so beautiful. That's the way you twist it.

I'll let you wallow in your ignorance if you are that clueless as to what Luke was talking about

[Charles]

I'll let you wallow in your ignorance if you are that clueless as to what Luke was talking about

If that is the level of clarity and support for your own interpretation you can provide, so be it. I knew you were having deep trouble and now you have just confirmed that if you are challenged your first instinct is not to rely on reason. That says a lot.

[rogue06]

If that is the level of clarity and support for your own interpretation you can provide, so be it. I knew you were having deep trouble and now you have just confirmed that if you are challenged your first instinct is not to rely on reason. That says a lot.

Does that cheap trick actually work for you? Maybe you should triple dog dare me to explain the obvious.

[Charles]

Does that cheap trick actually work for you? Maybe you should triple dog dare me to explain the obvious.

Calling for reason is now a cheap trick.

[Mountain Man]

Praise the Lord that not everyone, and not all Christians have that selfish view. Where does it end, where does it lead us? The hospitals in Canada face the same needs we do.

Push hardship on others less fortunate, less able, is hardly consistent with a Christian worldview.

The example I gave at the beginning is it would be immoral to leave your own children to starve in order to give food to someone else. As the saying goes, charity begins at home.

[mossrose]

It was 16 tons, and most of it was PPE, and only 1100 masks. And it was consigned the first week of February, when many assumed the epidemic was a Chinese thing, and before the death toll exceeded the Chinese deaths from SARS.

It is a sad commentary when it is Christians advocating some "every man for himself", in some Darwinian survival of the fittest. A pandemic needs international cooperation, shifting resources to where they are needed, the high demand are not

Canada is now importing masks and other equipment from China.

Canada shipped those medical supplies to China 2 DAYS after the WHO declared a global pandemic. What part of that don't you seem to understand?

My point, that you and all the other virtue signallers in this thread have missed, is that "not my" PM is an idiot, and there would be more necessary supplies here and less of a shortage here if he had not done that.

I do not care if the US refuses to send supplies here. I have to remember that there is 10 times (aproximately in case some skolar decides to get pedantic) the population of Canada in the US, and thousands more cases than here. The US needs those supplies right now more than we do.

I also give you some food for thought. In spite of Little Justin being a moron, there are hundreds of Canadian workers that cross the border every day from Windsor into Detroit to work in the hospitals and medical field there. These are Canadian citizens. Chew on that for a bit.

And you might also want to do a little research into the components of the masks that are so needed right now. One of those comes from BC. Chew on that for a bit.

Do let me ask you -- do you think Canada should stop those medical personnel from going across the border every day to work where they are badly needed?

Should Canada stop the pulp needed for those masks from being imported by the States?

I don't know the answer to those questions, either. I do know that this thread is nothing more than Christian bashing by simp and his friends, and yes, Trump bashing too. And, yes, a little bit of Trudeau bashing.

Trump is damned if he does withhold masks and damned by the same people if he chooses to send them to Canada. He can't win either way, and neither can the believers in this thread. If we say the masks should be sent to Canada we'll be horrible people for not caring for our own as scripture tells us to do, and if we think the US should withhold the supplies for their people we are uncaring and selfish for not helping our neighbours.

Can't win, no point in playing.

[oxmixmudd]

I Timothy 5:8, no matter how you seek to twist it.

No rogue. The context here is laziness, idleness, not charity. A man that does not work to supply the needs of his family. A lazy self focused person unwilling to do what is perhaps uncomfortable or hard in order to feed those he is responsible for.

It is not saying that one should not give sacrificially in times of need. It is not justifying hoarding for yourself while others suffer.

[rogue06]

No rogue. The context here is laziness, idleness, not charity. A man that does not work to supply the needs of his family. A lazy self focused person unwilling to do what is perhaps uncomfortable or hard in order to feed those he is responsible for.

It is not saying that one should not give sacrificially in times of need. It is not justifying hoarding for yourself while others suffer.

Here is the verse in context:

Honor widows who are truly widows. But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show godliness to their own household and to make some return to their parents, for this is pleasing in the sight of God. She who is truly a widow, left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day, but she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives. Command these things as well, so that they may be without reproach. But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband,a and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work. But refuse to enroll younger widows, for when their passions draw them away from Christ, they desire to marry and so incur condemnation for having abandoned their former faith.

Please point out where this is about laziness. For laziness we turn to Thessalonians 3:10:

For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.

And hoarding implies surplus which I already noted we should give to others when we've done our duty toward our own.

[Mountain Man]

No rogue. The context here is laziness, idleness, not charity. A man that does not work to supply the needs of his family. A lazy self focused person unwilling to do what is perhaps uncomfortable or hard in order to feed those he is responsible for.

It is not saying that one should not give sacrificially in times of need. It is not justifying hoarding for yourself while others suffer.

Do you believe it would be Biblical to deprive your children of food in order to donate it to a homeless shelter? That's the question at hand.

[Roy]

It was 16 tons, and most of it was PPE, and only 1100 masks. And it was consigned the first week of February, when many assumed the epidemic was a Chinese thing, and before the death toll exceeded the Chinese deaths from SARS.

It is a sad commentary when it is Christians advocating some "every man for himself", in some Darwinian survival of the fittest. A pandemic needs international cooperation, shifting resources to where they are needed, the high demand are not

Canada is now importing masks and other equipment from China.

You send 16 tons, and what do you get? Pandemic criticism from the nationalist set. Saint Joseph could have told you that events in the East lead to selfish Christians scorning people in need.