Originally posted by rogue06
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI did admit the statement about maximizing profit was wrong. That brings the total of my mistakes to about 5 factual errors in the course of about 10 years posting on this site. Given I see you make about that number of errors per day, I wouldn't be gloating if I were you.
If that is a quote from said commentator. you haven't even cited him just said he was a commentator. who was he and what were his Law qualifications on American Jurisprudence. so far without any more information, so all you admitted to is accepting the word of a someone you don't even know the qualifications of so you could make the stupid statement you made below
Originally posted by Starlight View PostAmerican law requires companies to maximize profits.Last edited by RumTumTugger; 04-04-2020, 08:09 PM.
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View PostIf that is a quote from said commentator. you haven't even cited him just said he was a commentator. who was he and what were his Law qualifications on American Jurisprudence."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View PostI see that our scholarly intellectual giant can't count either.
If that is a quote from said commentator. you haven't even cited him just said he was a commentator. who was he and what were his Law qualifications on American Jurisprudence. so far without any more information, so all you admitted to is accepting the word of a someone you don't even know the qualifications of so you could make the stupid statement you made below.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostIt's amusing when uneducated people lecture scientists on what acceptable sources of knowledge are and aren't and what a real intellectual and scientific mindset ought to be.
You know, you could have just asked someone who actually lives here since your "acceptable source of knowledge" apparently isn't worth a hill of beans.
"I resurched it on Google! I'm a fer real skolar!"
Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI confess I'm totally baffled by your demands that my internet forum posts follow really rigorous evidentiary standards. You do realize forum posts aren't scientific papers right? Given your posts are constantly full of drivel and falsehoods, you clearly don't follow a hundredth of the methodological rigor you're trying to demand of me.
We are not asking you to follow rigorous evidentiary standards we are asking you to back up your statements. If you don't back them up we have to presume that you are making them up and do not know what you are talking about. Prove me wrong. You can prove me wrong by giving us your citations/sources.
As for the rest of your post I and everyone else you say are less intelligent then you do provide citations/sources when making our statements or upon being asked for them. You Tassman, and JimL do not.Last edited by RumTumTugger; 04-04-2020, 10:58 PM.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostThe idiocy that gets written about me by you guys is hilarious.
I'd be the first to admit I know zilch about mechanics, or building contractors. That's why I'm not posting on a car mechanics forum. I don't think in my entire life I've ever given a mechanic or a building contractor any advice, so your imagination is bizarre. Projection maybe? Nor do I know or care about sport, or fashion, or much of the entertainment industry, and that's likewise why I'm not posting on a sports forum or music or movie forum.
I'm a theology and politics nerd, that's why I'm on this forum. And in my day job I work as a scientist, and I'm pretty well-educated. Is that really so very hard to grasp? I wouldn't have thought that was complicated, but it does seem to cause you guys a lot of distress."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI confess I'm totally baffled by your demands that my internet forum posts follow really rigorous evidentiary standards. You do realize forum posts aren't scientific papers right? Given your posts are constantly full of drivel and falsehoods, you clearly don't follow a hundredth of the methodological rigor you're trying to demand of me."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View PostSince you have not provided a citation we must presume you don't have one and made this up out of whole cloth.
You know you can just google for it right? You don't need to hysterically demand things you can easily find yourself. Usually when I ignore your increasingly hysterical demands that I prove the sky is blue it's because what you're asking for is really basic and you should learn by googling it.
Anyway, here are some links:
This lawyer's article argues that maximizing profit is legally required. His argument centers mostly around eBay v. Newmark, a 2010 Delaware case, in which the court ruled against the company management for failing to sufficiently focus on generating profit.
Here is a Q&A of a person asking about the topic. Again eBay v. Newmark is a major focus and the answers tend toward affirming that it is legally required.
Cornell law school lists maximizing profit as one of 3 "widely-held beliefs about business corporations [that] are erroneous. Business experts, financial press, economists and lawyers who rely upon these beliefs fail to grasp the legal features of corporate entities and the role that business corporations play, or can play, in our society". They primarily cite Burwell v Hobby Lobby 2014 for this view. Its not clear how they interpret eBay v. Newmark.
In this opinion piece the writer criticizes what he calls "The myth of maximizing shareholder value" and is critical of other people (e.g. American entrepreneur Jimmy Wales) who repeat the 'myth'. He argues that while in practice many companies do maximize profits to the detriment of people, that this practice is a cultural thing rather than legally required.
This Harvard professor writes: "Shareholder-value thinking dominates the business world today. Professors, policymakers, and business leaders routinely chant the mantras that public companies “belong” to their shareholders; that the proper goal of corporate governance is to maximize shareholder wealth; and that shareholder wealth is best measured by share price (meaning share price today, not share price next year or next decade)... [But actually] the ideology of shareholder value maximization lacks any solid foundation in corporate law, corporate economics, or the empirical evidence. Contrary to what many believe, U.S. corporate law does not impose any enforceable legal duty on corporate directors or executives of public corporations to maximize profits or share price."
So there's a diversity of views, and they all attest to a widespread view among many Americans that maximizing shareholder value is legally required. The more academic of the sources seem to agree though that Americans are wrong to believe this and that is a pervasive myth."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostA Google "scientist" who thinks it's a common belief among Americans that it is legally required for businesses to turn a profit!"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostIt's weird you assume others are lying until proven otherwise. Says a lot about you really.
You know you can just google for it right? You don't need to hysterically demand things you can easily find yourself. Usually when I ignore your increasingly hysterical demands that I prove the sky is blue it's because what you're asking for is really basic and you should learn by googling it.
Anyway, here are some links:
This lawyer's article argues that maximizing profit is legally required. His argument centers mostly around eBay v. Newmark, a 2010 Delaware case, in which the court ruled against the company management for failing to sufficiently focus on generating profit.
Here is a Q&A of a person asking about the topic. Again eBay v. Newmark is a major focus and the answers tend toward affirming that it is legally required.
Cornell law school lists maximizing profit as one of 3 "widely-held beliefs about business corporations [that] are erroneous. Business experts, financial press, economists and lawyers who rely upon these beliefs fail to grasp the legal features of corporate entities and the role that business corporations play, or can play, in our society". They primarily cite Burwell v Hobby Lobby 2014 for this view. Its not clear how they interpret eBay v. Newmark.
In this opinion piece the writer criticizes what he calls "The myth of maximizing shareholder value" and is critical of other people (e.g. American entrepreneur Jimmy Wales) who repeat the 'myth'. He argues that while in practice many companies do maximize profits to the detriment of people, that this practice is a cultural thing rather than legally required.
This Harvard professor writes: "Shareholder-value thinking dominates the business world today. Professors, policymakers, and business leaders routinely chant the mantras that public companies “belong” to their shareholders; that the proper goal of corporate governance is to maximize shareholder wealth; and that shareholder wealth is best measured by share price (meaning share price today, not share price next year or next decade)... [But actually] the ideology of shareholder value maximization lacks any solid foundation in corporate law, corporate economics, or the empirical evidence. Contrary to what many believe, U.S. corporate law does not impose any enforceable legal duty on corporate directors or executives of public corporations to maximize profits or share price."
So there's a diversity of views, and they all attest to a widespread view among many Americans that maximizing shareholder value is legally required. The more academic of the sources seem to agree though that Americans are wrong to believe this and that is a pervasive myth.
Next:
Is water wet?"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI guess if you didn't realize that was a common belief among Americans it must show you're not American and know nothing about America?"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostI’ve lived most my life, in America, and never heard anyone say that out loud.
Probably they have been far more in a small conservative bubble of like-minded folk than they realize. It's a "I haven't heard any of my friends and neighbors say it in my small town, therefore nobody in the whole country believes it" phenomena. The rejection of mainstream media, that would have informed them about other common viewpoints within their country, probably doesn't help.
Somehow they seem to think physical proximity to America is a substitute for actually learning about the viewpoints of Americans different to themselves. I am regularly shocked on this forum by how little conservative Americans here seem to understand about what liberal Americans think, despite the fact that I've come to expect it and allow for it.Last edited by Starlight; 04-05-2020, 12:54 AM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI do get the impression that a lot of the US posters here tend to assume their own life's experience is typical of America, when actually America is quite big and diverse.
Probably they have been far more in a small conservative bubble of like-minded folk than they realize. It's a "I haven't heard any of my friends and neighbors say it in my small town, therefore nobody in the whole country believes it" phenomena. The rejection of mainstream media, that would have informed them about other common viewpoints within their country, probably doesn't help.
Somehow they seem to think physical proximity to America is a substitute for actually learning about the viewpoints of Americans different to themselves. I am regularly shocked on this forum by how little conservative Americans here seem to understand about what liberal Americans think, despite the fact that I've come to expect it and allow for it.Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 04-05-2020, 02:09 AM."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI do get the impression that a lot of the US posters here tend to assume their own life's experience is typical of America, when actually America is quite big and diverse.
Probably they have been far more in a small conservative bubble of like-minded folk than they realize. It's a "I haven't heard any of my friends and neighbors say it in my small town, therefore nobody in the whole country believes it" phenomena. The rejection of mainstream media, that would have informed them about other common viewpoints within their country, probably doesn't help.
Somehow they seem to think physical proximity to America is a substitute for actually learning about the viewpoints of Americans different to themselves. I am regularly shocked on this forum by how little conservative Americans here seem to understand about what liberal Americans think, despite the fact that I've come to expect it and allow for it.
The leftist doctrine, on the surface, sounds idealic. In reality, the doctrine is destructive, unreachable. It is sort of the pagan solution in lieu of God's plan. There is a way that seems right to a man but in the end is death.
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