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Thread: America first?

  1. #101
    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    If you are actually in need mossrose, I will gladly send you some of my masks. But I will admit I would not send you ALL of them ;) I also might be willing to make you some if you cannot make your own.

    Do you need me to send you or make you some masks mossrose?

    But whether I would send you 0, 1, 2, or all, or whether I would make you some, does not change the fact that rogue's use of Timothy is in fact the opposite of its context and spirit.

    Jim
    No, I don't need any masks. I am actually going to make some for my family. I was just interested in your response.


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  2. #102
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    You guys keep insisting on applying scripture to government institutions, so we're just playing along and at least trying to impart a correct understanding of what the Bible actually says. But then I'm reminded of the exhortation against casting pearls before swine...
    When you promte the "me" or "us" first you are in no risk of casting pearls before swine.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

  3. #103
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Jim

    You accuse me of stretching things and yet you are doing that and more when you seek to make that verse about laziness, greed etc. If it is saying anything along those lines it is saying that if we can't even see to the need of our family how could anyone expect us to see to the needs of others if we can't even do that.

    But it is clearly saying that we ought to be charitable -- taking care of the needy widow for instance -- but emphasizes the old adage that charity begins at home. If we don't do that -- if we don't take care of them -- then that person has "denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

    Hence if you provide for others to the point that your own family suffers for it then you are ignoring what I Timothy 5:8 is telling you.
    No rogue. Again, this is not black/white, all one thing or the other. Working to provide for my own does not negate my obligation to others in need. The way you referenced 1 Timothy 5:8 directly implies it does.

    But here is a hypothetical for you to consider. Do you suppose the rich man that Jesus told to sell ALL he had, give it to the poor, and come follow him did not have a family or relatives? What was that all about. Did Jesus not care about the man's family?


    Further, I've made it clear multiple times that if you have enough that giving some of it to others won't cause your family to experience the very hardships that you are trying alleviate in others then it is our obligation to help. So before being kind to others we must first meet our responsibility to our own family.
    Yes and no. Indeed, we must take care of our own. But at the same time, we must also take care of others, even in our need, as much as possible. Your use if 1 Timothy was antithetical to that truth and you were quite direct in your implications, you offered no such qualification.

    And BTW, in me calling you on your misuse of 1 Timothy, I am not saying we give everything away to others and let our families starve. Neither extreme (It's all mine/give it all away) is a viable or Christian solution for living in a time of need.

    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 04-06-2020 at 11:14 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  4. #104
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    No rogue. Again, this is not black/white, all one thing or the other. Working to provide for my own does not negate my obligation to others in need. The way you referenced 1 Timothy 5:8 directly implies it does.

    But here is a hypothetical for you to consider. Do you suppose the rich man that Jesus told to sell ALL he had, give it to the poor, and come follow him did not have a family or relatives? What was that all about. Did Jesus not care about the man's family?




    Yes and no. Indeed, we must take care of our own. But at the same time, we must also take care of others, even in our need, as much as possible. Your use if 1 Timothy was antithetical to that truth and you were quite direct in your implications, you offered no such qualification.

    And BTW, in me calling you on your misuse of 1 Timothy, I am not saying we give everything away to others and let our families starve. Neither extreme (It's all mine/give it all away) is a viable or Christian solution for living in a time of need.

    Jim
    Funny I had a paragraph in that post describing how you were using binary thinking here but dropped it as superfluous.

    It is almost like you are deliberately trying to take what I'm saying and twist it all around. At no point have I suggested or even implied an extreme "It's all mine/give it all away" position. You have created a straw man here. I have repeatedly said that we should provide for others but only if it by doing so don't cause our family to experience the very hardships that we are trying alleviate in others.

    I'm always still in trouble again

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  5. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  6. #105
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Funny I had a paragraph in that post describing how you were using binary thinking here but dropped it as superfluous.

    It is almost like you are deliberately trying to take what I'm saying and twist it all around. At no point have I suggested or even implied an extreme "It's all mine/give it all away" position. You have created a straw man here. I have repeatedly said that we should provide for others but only if it by doing so don't cause our family to experience the very hardships that we are trying alleviate in others.
    Do people really need to be told to look after their own family before helping others?

    Were people so eager to be charitable that there would be times when they got home and realised ‘Oh no I’ve done it again! Now my family must starve!’.

    I thought that verse was talking about Christian values. Christians that only practice Christian values in public but not in private are worse than unbelievers.

  7. #106
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watermelon View Post
    Do people really need to be told to look after their own family before helping others? [...]
    No. And that says a lot about their interpretation.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

  8. #107
    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
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    This entire thread is now moot.

    It seems 3M will continue to ship masks to Canada after all.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...asks-1.4885409

    Now we just have to wait and see what simp will use next to attack Christians.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  9. #108
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    This entire thread is now moot.

    It seems 3M will continue to ship masks to Canada after all.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...asks-1.4885409

    Now we just have to wait and see what simp will use next to attack Christians.
    No big surprise since they are a multinational conglomerate company which produces a lot of their face masks in other places like China.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  10. #109
    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    No big surprise since they are a multinational conglomerate company which produces a lot of their face masks in other places like China.
    If only we'd waited until it was resolved before simp started trolling. I guess then it wouldn't have been fun for him.


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  11. #110
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    If only we'd waited until it was resolved before simp started trolling. I guess then it wouldn't have been fun for him.
    Why is it trolling?

    I did ask a question, of Christians, whether we should allow 3M to ship masks to Canada. That was a timely topic, and many made the argument that we should not, that Canadian citizens were not "our own".

    Shipments of masks to Canada and Germany were turned around while in transit.

    You yourself claimed that the shortages were due (in part) to the shipment Trudeau consigned on 4 Feb, early on in the pandemic. International epidemic response is predicated on the idea of countries working to stop the epidemic in the hot spots early on, to prevent outbreaks happening elsewhere. Ebola is a classic example, as were other epidemics of the 21st century.

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