America first?

[Watermelon]

Are you kidding? The news and information we constantly hear comes from the leftist media. Their veneer is thin. The leftists are promoting dependency on corrupt governments. The leftists are promoting racism -- to cause divisions among people in great exaggeration of the real problems. They speak against big corrupt corporations but are fully endorsed and supported by domineering corporations like many in Silicon Valley.

The leftist doctrine, on the surface, sounds idealic. In reality, the doctrine is destructive, unreachable. It is sort of the pagan solution in lieu of God's plan. There is a way that seems right to a man but in the end is death.

Maybe make government more transparent? You seem resigned to the fact that the government is corrupt yet when action is taken to expose the governments corruption you would undoubtedly claim it’s a hoax or the perpetrators are traitors.

[Starlight]

The news and information we constantly hear comes from the leftist media.

You seem to listen to a lot of alternative media, hence your conspiracy-theory views about coronavirus basically being a hoax, the hospitals all lying about their number of patients etc.

The leftists are promoting dependency on corrupt governments.

As a leftist myself I would say I first and foremost promote anti-corruption policies to reduce corruption in government. The government exists, like it or not (you apparently don't). But corruption doesn't have to exist, and it doesn't have to be as bad as it currently is the in the US. I would say in general I observe those against anti-corruption policies and steps to always be right-wingers.

The leftists are promoting racism -- to cause divisions among people in great exaggeration of the real problems.

I don't think an ostrich-head-in-the-ground strategy of "well if we don't know about the problems, they're basically not happening, right?" is a useful approach. America has historically, from the very first, erred very seriously on the side of serious racial injustices (slavery of Africans, treatment of Native Americans, KKK, Jim Crow etc). If it goes too far in the other direction, and gets a bit too racially woke for a decade, it might balance the hundreds of years that it went the other way.

They speak against big corrupt corporations but are fully endorsed and supported by domineering corporations like many in Silicon Valley.

Silicon Valley seems to tend to be quite libertarian. It leans strongly liberal on social policies, but economically it's often quite right-wing and quite anti Progressive and often anti-government.

The leftist doctrine, on the surface, sounds idealic.

It doesn't just sound idyllic, it's great in practice. Living myself in a country that has pretty much all the 'leftist' policies people like Bernie Sanders would advocate for (e.g. we've had government-funded healthcare for 75 years), I can certainly say it all works very very well and people like it. My country usually ranks among the top countries in the world for freedom, lack of corruption, and happiness, along with similarly leftist countries like the Scandinavian ones.

In reality, the doctrine is destructive, unreachable. It is sort of the pagan solution in lieu of God's plan.

So I shouldn't believe my lying eyes? It's all an illusion and people around me are secretly not happy?

Perhaps when my grandfather broke his hip, had to get a pin put in it, and spent two weeks in hospital, a couple of months ago, I would have liked it so much better if we'd been billed for his treatment? Maybe I could have stared at a bill for thousands of dollars and appreciated life more or something?

Maybe if I experienced the joys of your US healthcare system I'd realize private healthcare is the peak of God's plan for humanity?

"Who's going to pay for it?" - a dying patient's last words before being placed on a ventilator.

[Starlight]

Maybe make government more transparent? You seem resigned to the fact that the government is corrupt yet when action is taken to expose the governments corruption you would undoubtedly claim it’s a hoax or the perpetrators are traitors.

Didn't see your post until after I posted mine. Unsurprising to see two leftists respond with anti-corruption views simultaneously though.

[mikewhitney]

You seem to listen to a lot of alternative media, hence your conspiracy-theory views about coronavirus basically being a hoax, the hospitals all lying about their number of patients etc.

As a leftist myself I would say I first and foremost promote anti-corruption policies to reduce corruption in government. The government exists, like it or not (you apparently don't). But corruption doesn't have to exist, and it doesn't have to be as bad as it currently is the in the US. I would say in general I observe those against anti-corruption policies and steps to always be right-wingers.

I don't think an ostrich-head-in-the-ground strategy of "well if we don't know about the problems, they're basically not happening, right?" is a useful approach. America has historically, from the very first, erred very seriously on the side of serious racial injustices (slavery of Africans, treatment of Native Americans, KKK, Jim Crow etc). If it goes too far in the other direction, and gets a bit too racially woke for a decade, it might balance the hundreds of years that it went the other way.

Silicon Valley seems to tend to be quite libertarian. It leans strongly liberal on social policies, but economically it's often quite right-wing and quite anti Progressive and often anti-government.

It doesn't just sound idyllic, it's great in practice. Living myself in a country that has pretty much all the 'leftist' policies people like Bernie Sanders would advocate for (e.g. we've had government-funded healthcare for 75 years), I can certainly say it all works very very well and people like it. My country usually ranks among the top countries in the world for freedom, lack of corruption, and happiness, along with similarly leftist countries like the Scandinavian ones.

So I shouldn't believe my lying eyes? It's all an illusion and people around me are secretly not happy?

Perhaps when my grandfather broke his hip, had to get a pin put in it, and spent two weeks in hospital, a couple of months ago, I would have like it so much better if we'd been billed for his treatment? Maybe I could have stared at a bill for thousands of dollars and appreciated life more or something? Maybe if I experienced the joys of your US healthcare system I'd realize private healthcare is the peak of God's plan for humanity?

I have not found many people saying the virus is a hoax. I have not heard many hospitals telling the number of coronavirus cases they have had. But I have seen video evidence showing the news media presenting lies and exaggerations -- of showing great activity outside of the hospitals. When other people check out the activity, the hospitals show nearly no activity around them. We have seen the numbers in other threads. If a dozen people die in a day at a given hospital, there should be room for a dozen additional patients. However, for example, people show Elmhurst Queens hospital having no walk-in patients or ambulance transports for hours. This simply is the opposite of what the media has portrayed. No one here has explained how that makes sense.

Calling everything conspiracy theory is a convenient way for you to disregard information that exposes the leftist indoctrination. At least you hear some opposition to the indoctrination when you discuss stuff at tweb -- gotta give you credit for that.
I hope you are right about NZ not having corruption. Some so-called socialist stuff may work in NZ ... whatever... it is your life there.

And, about Silicon Valley, whatever .... it doesn't make sense how you summarize it.

[Watermelon]

Didn't see your post until after I posted mine. Unsurprising to see two leftists respond with anti-corruption views simultaneously though.

Is it crazy that I’m considered slightly conservative in Australia?

[Starlight]

Is it crazy that I’m considered slightly conservative in Australia?

So that makes you basically a communist by the standards of some Americans here.

I find Australian politics weird. I think the reason I find it weird is the sense I get that on the whole it's more socially conservative than New Zealand but more left-wing economically, and that's not a common combination in the Western world and I find it quite jarring.

[simplicio]

So that makes you basically a communist by the standards of some Americans here.

I find Australian politics weird. I think the reason I find it weird is the sense I get that on the whole it's more socially conservative than New Zealand but more left-wing economically, and that's not a common combination in the Western world and I find it quite jarring.

It is uncommon only since the eighties, it has not always been so. (the combination of liberal or progressive ideas and social conservatism, the New Deal had many conservatives)

[Watermelon]

So that makes you basically a communist by the standards of some Americans here.

I find Australian politics weird. I think the reason I find it weird is the sense I get that on the whole it's more socially conservative than New Zealand but more left-wing economically, and that's not a common combination in the Western world and I find it quite jarring.

Maybe it’s because the Greens became a significant minor party during the early 2000s and were vital for labor during the Rudd Gillard Rudd era. It’s currently our Conservative party that’s extended our stimulus payments to include New Zealanders in Australia too.

I think ‘socially conservative’ and ‘left wing economically’ is pretty much my position. I thought I was progressive but somewhere along the way I became lost. I get LGB but more letters were added and I don’t know what they are. I guess when progressive positions become the norm they become the conservative position so young progressives become old conservatives. The current conservative position in the US has been extinct for at least half a century here. The western world has moved to a social democracy in that time while it seems the US is still stuck in the capitalist v socialist argument.

[simplicio]

Canada wouldn't need any of your medical supplies if Little Justin hadn't sent 60 tons (or maybe tonnes) of masks and gloves, etc. to China in February.

That man is a moron and needs to be fired.

So should the US stop selling masks to Canada now that we in this country are having a pandemic?

[mossrose]

So should the US stop selling masks to Canada now that we in this country are having a pandemic?

I don't know. I was commenting on the stupidity of my own country's leader. The US will do whatever it does and whatever impact that has on either the States or Canada will be what it will be. And nothing I do or say will change anything. So it's barely worth talking about.

If all you want to do here is bash Trump, you are free to do so, as I am free to talk about my moron of a PM.

[Mountain Man]

It's weird you assume others are lying until proven otherwise. Says a lot about you really.

You know you can just google for it right? You don't need to hysterically demand things you can easily find yourself. Usually when I ignore your increasingly hysterical demands that I prove the sky is blue it's because what you're asking for is really basic and you should learn by googling it.

Anyway, here are some links:

This lawyer's article argues that maximizing profit is legally required. His argument centers mostly around eBay v. Newmark, a 2010 Delaware case, in which the court ruled against the company management for failing to sufficiently focus on generating profit.

Here is a Q&A of a person asking about the topic. Again eBay v. Newmark is a major focus and the answers tend toward affirming that it is legally required.

Cornell law school lists maximizing profit as one of 3 "widely-held beliefs about business corporations [that] are erroneous. Business experts, financial press, economists and lawyers who rely upon these beliefs fail to grasp the legal features of corporate entities and the role that business corporations play, or can play, in our society". They primarily cite Burwell v Hobby Lobby 2014 for this view. Its not clear how they interpret eBay v. Newmark.

In this opinion piece the writer criticizes what he calls "The myth of maximizing shareholder value" and is critical of other people (e.g. American entrepreneur Jimmy Wales) who repeat the 'myth'. He argues that while in practice many companies do maximize profits to the detriment of people, that this practice is a cultural thing rather than legally required.

This Harvard professor writes: "Shareholder-value thinking dominates the business world today. Professors, policymakers, and business leaders routinely chant the mantras that public companies “belong” to their shareholders; that the proper goal of corporate governance is to maximize shareholder wealth; and that shareholder wealth is best measured by share price (meaning share price today, not share price next year or next decade)... [But actually] the ideology of shareholder value maximization lacks any solid foundation in corporate law, corporate economics, or the empirical evidence. Contrary to what many believe, U.S. corporate law does not impose any enforceable legal duty on corporate directors or executives of public corporations to maximize profits or share price."

So there's a diversity of views, and they all attest to a widespread view among many Americans that maximizing shareholder value is legally required. The more academic of the sources seem to agree though that Americans are wrong to believe this and that is a pervasive myth.

So you stated something as fact when it isn't, and then when called on it, falsely claimed that it was the prevailing view among US citizens when it isn't

Good job, Google Skolar!

[lilpixieofterror]

So you stated something as fact when it isn't, and then when called on it, falsely claimed that it was the prevailing view among US citizens when it isn't

Good job, Google Skolar!

Note that he ignored my comment when I pointed out I’ve lived all over the country and have never heard anyone express this view. Can’t imagine why he’d ignore that...

[Starlight]

So you stated something as fact when it isn't, and then when called on it, falsely claimed that it was the prevailing view among US citizens when it isn't-

Just admit you were wrong rather than moving the goalposts.

[Starlight]

It is uncommon only since the eighties, it has not always been so. (the combination of liberal or progressive ideas and social conservatism, the New Deal had many conservatives)

Indeed, that's an important observation. It was much more common in the Western world pre-1980s.

Apart from Australia, the group today that I most associate with a socially conservative & economically left position is Roman Catholics. Catholics don't seem to have bought much into the US Evangelical love of right-wing economics (aka selfishness and greed ).

[mossrose]

Indeed, that's an important observation. It was much more common in the Western world pre-1980s.

Apart from Australia, the group today that I most associate with a socially conservative & economically left position is Roman Catholics. Catholics don't seem to have bought much into the US Evangelical love of right-wing economics (aka selfishness and greed ).

Mr. Scholar, you don't know much about the history of the RCC, do you? Maybe you could look it up and then make a comment on greed in that denomination.