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  • #91
    Originally posted by Ignorant Roy View Post
    You send 16 tons, and what do you get? Pandemic criticism from the nationalist set. Saint Joseph could have told you that events in the East lead to selfish Christians scorning people in need.
    He's not being criticized for donating supplies, you dope, he's being criticized for doing it in such a way that has left his own country in danger.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #92
      It is interesting to note that when the Bible talks about giving, being unto others and stuff like that some twebbers are quick to tell us that those are guidelines for the individual not for the governments. However when the Bible (in a narrow minded interpretation) talks about talking care of your own first, they feel no need to point out that the guidelines only apply to the individual.
      "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by mossrose View Post
        Canada shipped those medical supplies to China 2 DAYS after the WHO declared a global pandemic. What part of that don't you seem to understand?

        My point, that you and all the other virtue signallers in this thread have missed, is that "not my" PM is an idiot, and there would be more necessary supplies here and less of a shortage here if he had not done that.

        I do not care if the US refuses to send supplies here. I have to remember that there is 10 times (aproximately in case some skolar decides to get pedantic) the population of Canada in the US, and thousands more cases than here. The US needs those supplies right now more than we do.

        I also give you some food for thought. In spite of Little Justin being a moron, there are hundreds of Canadian workers that cross the border every day from Windsor into Detroit to work in the hospitals and medical field there. These are Canadian citizens. Chew on that for a bit.

        And you might also want to do a little research into the components of the masks that are so needed right now. One of those comes from BC. Chew on that for a bit.

        Do let me ask you -- do you think Canada should stop those medical personnel from going across the border every day to work where they are badly needed?

        Should Canada stop the pulp needed for those masks from being imported by the States?

        I don't know the answer to those questions, either. I do know that this thread is nothing more than Christian bashing by simp and his friends, and yes, Trump bashing too. And, yes, a little bit of Trudeau bashing.

        Trump is damned if he does withhold masks and damned by the same people if he chooses to send them to Canada. He can't win either way, and neither can the believers in this thread. If we say the masks should be sent to Canada we'll be horrible people for not caring for our own as scripture tells us to do, and if we think the US should withhold the supplies for their people we are uncaring and selfish for not helping our neighbours.

        Can't win, no point in playing.
        They consigned the products on Feb 4. Just as was done for the ebola epidemic, countries attempted to keep it in check in the hot spots, the areas with outbreaks. Since the outbreaks were in China, it makes sense, especially when many were downplaying the potential severity.

        Why are you asking me those questions? I am arguing for sending aid where it is needed, when it is needed. Canada included.

        Except I already know why you are directing those question at me and not the posters who are arguing against sending aid and closing borders because of the pandemic.

        Justin Trudeau pointed out that workers cross borders at Windsor, as well as Buffalo/Niagara Falls border points.

        So you also argue that scripture supports the view of withholding aid to other countries!

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Here is the verse in context:

          Honor widows who are truly widows. But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show godliness to their own household and to make some return to their parents, for this is pleasing in the sight of God. She who is truly a widow, left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day, but she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives. Command these things as well, so that they may be without reproach. But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

          Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband,a and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work. But refuse to enroll younger widows, for when their passions draw them away from Christ, they desire to marry and so incur condemnation for having abandoned their former faith.


          Please point out where this is about laziness. For laziness we turn to Thessalonians 3:10:

          For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.


          And hoarding implies surplus which I already noted we should give to others when we've done our duty toward our own.
          Rogue, do you suppose that not caring for a widow in your charge is not laziness, selfishness, greed, indifference? Please dont let you hardness of heart play this sort of game. You are twisting Timothy to justify indifference to others needs in preference to our own which is the opposite of its meaning. In fact, what it is saying is that people who are willing to ignore the needs of others, especially their own relatives, willing to let them starve or die, they are worse than an unbeliever.

          Why are they worse than an unbeliever rogue? Because they have known the love and mercy and compassion of God, yet they will not show that same love and mercy and compassion to others, even their own relatives.
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            He's not being criticized for donating supplies, you dope, he's being criticized for doing it in such a way that has left his own country in danger.
            Come back when you achieve understanding.
            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by simplicio View Post
              They consigned the products on Feb 4. Just as was done for the ebola epidemic, countries attempted to keep it in check in the hot spots, the areas with outbreaks. Since the outbreaks were in China, it makes sense, especially when many were downplaying the potential severity.

              Why are you asking me those questions? I am arguing for sending aid where it is needed, when it is needed. Canada included.

              Except I already know why you are directing those question at me and not the posters who are arguing against sending aid and closing borders because of the pandemic.

              Justin Trudeau pointed out that workers cross borders at Windsor, as well as Buffalo/Niagara Falls border points.

              So you also argue that scripture supports the view of withholding aid to other countries!

              You started the thread, simp. You are the one asking the questions. I was responding to you.

              And I'm not going to play your games anymore. I've given you my answer to your questions and I'm done. You may continue showing what a sweetheart you are with your holier-than-thou attitude but I'm not biting.


              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                Rogue, do you suppose that not caring for a widow in your charge is not laziness, selfishness, greed, indifference? Please dont let you hardness of heart play this sort of game. You are twisting Timothy to justify indifference to others needs in preference to our own which is the opposite of its meaning. In fact, what it is saying is that people who are willing to ignore the needs of others, especially their own relatives, willing to let them starve or die, they are worse than an unbeliever.

                Why are they worse than an unbeliever rogue? Because they have known the love and mercy and compassion of God, yet they will not show that same love and mercy and compassion to others, even their own relatives.

                Jim, please send me all your masks. I will pm my address.


                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                  It is interesting to note that when the Bible talks about giving, being unto others and stuff like that some twebbers are quick to tell us that those are guidelines for the individual not for the governments. However when the Bible (in a narrow minded interpretation) talks about talking care of your own first, they feel no need to point out that the guidelines only apply to the individual.
                  You guys keep insisting on applying scripture to government institutions, so we're just playing along and at least trying to impart a correct understanding of what the Bible actually says. But then I'm reminded of the exhortation against casting pearls before swine...
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    Rogue, do you suppose that not caring for a widow in your charge is not laziness, selfishness, greed, indifference? Please dont let you hardness of heart play this sort of game. You are twisting Timothy to justify indifference to others needs in preference to our own which is the opposite of its meaning. In fact, what it is saying is that people who are willing to ignore the needs of others, especially their own relatives, willing to let them starve or die, they are worse than an unbeliever.

                    Why are they worse than an unbeliever rogue? Because they have known the love and mercy and compassion of God, yet they will not show that same love and mercy and compassion to others, even their own relatives.
                    Jim

                    You accuse me of stretching things and yet you are doing that and more when you seek to make that verse about laziness, greed etc. If it is saying anything along those lines it is saying that if we can't even see to the need of our family how could anyone expect us to see to the needs of others if we can't even do that.

                    But it is clearly saying that we ought to be charitable -- taking care of the needy widow for instance -- but emphasizes the old adage that charity begins at home. If we don't do that -- if we don't take care of them -- then that person has "denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

                    Hence if you provide for others to the point that your own family suffers for it then you are ignoring what I Timothy 5:8 is telling you.

                    Further, I've made it clear multiple times that if you have enough that giving some of it to others won't cause your family to experience the very hardships that you are trying alleviate in others then it is our obligation to help. So before being kind to others we must first meet our responsibility to our own family.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                      Jim, please send me all your masks. I will pm my address.
                      If you are actually in need mossrose, I will gladly send you some of my masks. But I will admit I would not send you ALL of them ;) I also might be willing to make you some if you cannot make your own.

                      Do you need me to send you or make you some masks mossrose?

                      But whether I would send you 0, 1, 2, or all, or whether I would make you some, does not change the fact that rogue's use of Timothy is in fact the opposite of its context and spirit.

                      Jim
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        If you are actually in need mossrose, I will gladly send you some of my masks. But I will admit I would not send you ALL of them ;) I also might be willing to make you some if you cannot make your own.

                        Do you need me to send you or make you some masks mossrose?

                        But whether I would send you 0, 1, 2, or all, or whether I would make you some, does not change the fact that rogue's use of Timothy is in fact the opposite of its context and spirit.

                        Jim
                        No, I don't need any masks. I am actually going to make some for my family. I was just interested in your response.


                        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          You guys keep insisting on applying scripture to government institutions, so we're just playing along and at least trying to impart a correct understanding of what the Bible actually says. But then I'm reminded of the exhortation against casting pearls before swine...
                          When you promte the "me" or "us" first you are in no risk of casting pearls before swine.
                          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Jim

                            You accuse me of stretching things and yet you are doing that and more when you seek to make that verse about laziness, greed etc. If it is saying anything along those lines it is saying that if we can't even see to the need of our family how could anyone expect us to see to the needs of others if we can't even do that.

                            But it is clearly saying that we ought to be charitable -- taking care of the needy widow for instance -- but emphasizes the old adage that charity begins at home. If we don't do that -- if we don't take care of them -- then that person has "denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

                            Hence if you provide for others to the point that your own family suffers for it then you are ignoring what I Timothy 5:8 is telling you.
                            No rogue. Again, this is not black/white, all one thing or the other. Working to provide for my own does not negate my obligation to others in need. The way you referenced 1 Timothy 5:8 directly implies it does.

                            But here is a hypothetical for you to consider. Do you suppose the rich man that Jesus told to sell ALL he had, give it to the poor, and come follow him did not have a family or relatives? What was that all about. Did Jesus not care about the man's family?


                            Further, I've made it clear multiple times that if you have enough that giving some of it to others won't cause your family to experience the very hardships that you are trying alleviate in others then it is our obligation to help. So before being kind to others we must first meet our responsibility to our own family.
                            Yes and no. Indeed, we must take care of our own. But at the same time, we must also take care of others, even in our need, as much as possible. Your use if 1 Timothy was antithetical to that truth and you were quite direct in your implications, you offered no such qualification.

                            And BTW, in me calling you on your misuse of 1 Timothy, I am not saying we give everything away to others and let our families starve. Neither extreme (It's all mine/give it all away) is a viable or Christian solution for living in a time of need.

                            Jim
                            Last edited by oxmixmudd; 04-06-2020, 01:14 PM.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              No rogue. Again, this is not black/white, all one thing or the other. Working to provide for my own does not negate my obligation to others in need. The way you referenced 1 Timothy 5:8 directly implies it does.

                              But here is a hypothetical for you to consider. Do you suppose the rich man that Jesus told to sell ALL he had, give it to the poor, and come follow him did not have a family or relatives? What was that all about. Did Jesus not care about the man's family?




                              Yes and no. Indeed, we must take care of our own. But at the same time, we must also take care of others, even in our need, as much as possible. Your use if 1 Timothy was antithetical to that truth and you were quite direct in your implications, you offered no such qualification.

                              And BTW, in me calling you on your misuse of 1 Timothy, I am not saying we give everything away to others and let our families starve. Neither extreme (It's all mine/give it all away) is a viable or Christian solution for living in a time of need.

                              Jim
                              Funny I had a paragraph in that post describing how you were using binary thinking here but dropped it as superfluous.

                              It is almost like you are deliberately trying to take what I'm saying and twist it all around. At no point have I suggested or even implied an extreme "It's all mine/give it all away" position. You have created a straw man here. I have repeatedly said that we should provide for others but only if it by doing so don't cause our family to experience the very hardships that we are trying alleviate in others.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Funny I had a paragraph in that post describing how you were using binary thinking here but dropped it as superfluous.

                                It is almost like you are deliberately trying to take what I'm saying and twist it all around. At no point have I suggested or even implied an extreme "It's all mine/give it all away" position. You have created a straw man here. I have repeatedly said that we should provide for others but only if it by doing so don't cause our family to experience the very hardships that we are trying alleviate in others.
                                Do people really need to be told to look after their own family before helping others?

                                Were people so eager to be charitable that there would be times when they got home and realised ‘Oh no I’ve done it again! Now my family must starve!’.

                                I thought that verse was talking about Christian values. Christians that only practice Christian values in public but not in private are worse than unbelievers.

                                Comment

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