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Thread: Evangelicals full of fear

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Doesn't sound much like an Evangelical, eh?
    Ok, I have admitted I made an error due to a misunderstanding based on the fact that English is not my main language.

    In my language we don't use capital letters at all when describing a persons religion, so we would write "christian" instead of "Christian". I thought in English one would generally use capital letters in all cases. I would be happy to correct the error in the opening post and elsewhere but I cannot.

    You will see the error two times in the opening post: "Messiah College historian John Fea, himself an Evangelical, has some rather interesting observations and thoughts about Evangelicals." His observations and thoughts are obviously about "evangelicals".

    You seem to use almost all posts in here to repeat your pointing to an error I have admitted and had no intention of making.
    Last edited by Charles; 04-07-2020 at 08:18 AM.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    If I didn't know any better, I would think a fear of change was a human quality and not something unique to evangelicals.

    I don't see anyone challenging the idea that fear of change is a human quality. The point rather seems to be that the Christian message should take away that fear and should cause human beings to not be guided by their fear. Mossrose wrote about this in one of the first posts: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post725940

    Here is a part of what I quoted Fea saying in the opening post:
    "Fear represents a kind of lack of faith in God's sovereignty or God's will to work out his purposes. I love the quote from Marylinne Robinson: 'Fear is not a Christian habit of mind.' Fear is a product of the broken world that we live in, but fear is not a place where one can dwell and still claim to be an evangelical Christian. It produces negative consequences.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    I don't see anyone challenging the idea that fear of change is a human quality. The point rather seems to be that the Christian message should take away that fear and should cause human beings to not be guided by their fear. Mossrose wrote about this in one of the first posts: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post725940

    Here is a part of what I quoted Fea saying in the opening post:
    Not so much take it away as give us the strength and determination not to act on it, and the wisdom to recognize it. Yet in so many places, and on so many web pages, much of the opposite rings out.

    This is one of the reasons I just tuned out all the end-times eschatological musings long ago. It's all fear mongering and paranoia. And that element is one of the seeds that produces so many of the crazy ideas we see coming out of Evangelical Christendom. Evangelicals steeped in these end times prognostications are always on the paranoid look out for any and all possible indications the end has come - obscuring and hindering their focus on trusting God and helping those in need now. They often see every action towards peace in the world as a move towards the manifestation of the false prophet of peace and the anti-Christ ushering in the Tribulation. And in the end it undercuts the Gospel message. They see conspiracies everywhere. The Illuminati, the one world order, and so on and so on. I used to follow it. But I fairly early on realized this is not what God wants from us. He wants us to trust him and BE salt and light in the world, to BE the church and to help people find the peace, grace and redemption that come from knowing Christ. Living open,vulnerable,loving lives. Not murmuring among ourselves wondering if the latest id card or global initiative is paving the way for the anti-Christ.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 04-07-2020 at 08:54 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Not so much take it away as give us the strength and determination not to act on it, and the wisdom to recognize it. Yet in so many places, and on so many web pages, much of the opposite rings out.

    This is one of the reasons I just tuned out all the end-times eschatological musings long ago. It's all fear mongering and paranoia. And that element is one of the seeds that produces so many of the crazy ideas we see coming out of Evangelical Christendom. Evangelicals steeped in these end times prognostications are always on the paranoid look out for any and all possible indications the end has come - obscuring and hindering their focus on trusting God and helping those in need now. They often see every action towards peace in the world as a move towards the manifestation of the false prophet of peace and the anti-Christ ushering in the Tribulation. And in the end it undercuts the Gospel message. They see conspiracies everywhere. The Illuminati, the one world order, and so on and so on. I used to follow it. But I finally realized this is not what God wants from us. He wants us to trust him and BE salt and light in the world, to BE the church and to help people find the peace, grace and redemption that come from knowing Christ. Living open,vulnerable,loving lives. Not murmuring among ourselves wondering if the latest id card or global initiative is paving the way for the anti-Christ.
    Not much different than the gloom and doom scientific prophets you uphold, and they have much more impact and influence on the world than the evangelicals you detest. How many children have been frightened to the point of emotional hysterics because they believe the world is doomed in a decade? Those are the folks you choose to honor.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  5. Amen Mountain Man amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    Not much different than the gloom and doom scientific prophets you uphold, and they have much more impact and influence on the world than the evangelicals you detest. How many children have been frightened to the point of emotional hysterics because they believe the world is doomed in a decade? Those are the folks you choose to honor.
    How many times in the past several weeks has ox mentioned how "SCARY!' the latest Chinese virus projections are?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  7. #76
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    Ok, I have admitted I made an error due to a misunderstanding based on the fact that English is not my main language.

    In my language we don't use capital letters at all when describing a persons religion, so we would write "christian" instead of "Christian". I thought in English one would generally use capital letters in all cases. I would be happy to correct the error in the opening post and elsewhere but I cannot.

    You will see the error two times in the opening post: "Messiah College historian John Fea, himself an Evangelical, has some rather interesting observations and thoughts about Evangelicals." His observations and thoughts are obviously about "evangelicals".

    You seem to use almost all posts in here to repeat your pointing to an error I have admitted and had no intention of making.
    It's an important point, Charles, and I tried a number of times to point out the difference, but you just plowed ahead.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  8. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Not so much take it away as give us the strength and determination not to act on it, and the wisdom to recognize it. Yet in so many places, and on so many web pages, much of the opposite rings out.

    This is one of the reasons I just tuned out all the end-times eschatological musings long ago. It's all fear mongering and paranoia. And that element is one of the seeds that produces so many of the crazy ideas we see coming out of Evangelical Christendom. Evangelicals steeped in these end times prognostications are always on the paranoid look out for any and all possible indications the end has come - obscuring and hindering their focus on trusting God and helping those in need now. They often see every action towards peace in the world as a move towards the manifestation of the false prophet of peace and the anti-Christ ushering in the Tribulation. And in the end it undercuts the Gospel message. They see conspiracies everywhere. The Illuminati, the one world order, and so on and so on. I used to follow it. But I fairly early on realized this is not what God wants from us. He wants us to trust him and BE salt and light in the world, to BE the church and to help people find the peace, grace and redemption that come from knowing Christ. Living open,vulnerable,loving lives. Not murmuring among ourselves wondering if the latest id card or global initiative is paving the way for the anti-Christ.
    Your first line is a better way of saying it than what I did. Inspiring post. Thanks.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

  9. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    How many times in the past several weeks has ox mentioned how "SCARY!' the latest Chinese virus projections are?
    I have seen him point to statistics and I have seen him sharing his opinion that others have too slowly realized how serious this was. I think that is absolutely fair in a context in which human lives are at stake. Using expressions like "SCARY!' in this context seems childish or cold.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    Not much different than the gloom and doom scientific prophets you uphold, and they have much more impact and influence on the world than the evangelicals you detest. How many children have been frightened to the point of emotional hysterics because they believe the world is doomed in a decade? Those are the folks you choose to honor.
    seanD - you need to think carefully before you say things about me that are not true. First I don't detest evangelicals. I love them. I am one. However, I do detest what ignorance and fear does to them. Some of my wife's closest friends are off in the weeds with the same crazy stuff I'm talking about. But they are indeed convinced all this stuff is real, even when given clear evidence it is not. But we love them dearly.

    And I would ask you how many children have lost their faith and/or been frightened to emotional hysterics over the latest prognostications about the end times, or the denials of basic scientific facts like the age of the Earth and Universe, or the fact the world is warming, or denial of the fact life has a mult-million year history on this earth.

    What I hold up seanD is the truth and faith in God which allows us to best deal with that Truth. But like Jesus said, before you go to battle, make sure you honestly and truthfully assess the strength of the enemy and determine if you have the forces necessary to defeat them. Otherwise, go make peace with them. That means, bottom line, FACE THE TRUTH. Be honest about what is true and what is not. As Augustine said, if the world sees people that claim to follow Christ unable to process or understand what is in this world and right before us, how can they trust us to have a lick of sense about what we can't see or prove as regards the Spiritual Truths found in Scripture? Indeed, and I have found this to be so often true, it is often those that aggressively live in denial about what we can learn about and from the world that also live in denial about what the truth of God as it is found in Scripture.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  11. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    seanD - you need to think carefully before you say things about me that are not true. First I don't detest evangelicals. I love them. I am one. However, I do detest what ignorance and fear does to them. Some of my wife's closest friends are off in the weeds with the same crazy stuff I'm talking about. But they are indeed convinced all this stuff is real, even when given clear evidence it is not. But we love them dearly.

    And I would ask you how many children have lost their faith and/or been frightened to emotional hysterics over the latest prognostications about the end times, or the denials of basic scientific facts like the age of the Earth and Universe, or the fact the world is warming, or denial of the fact life has a mult-million year history on this earth.

    What I hold up seanD is the truth and faith in God which allows us to best deal with that Truth. But like Jesus said, before you go to battle, make sure you honestly and truthfully assess the strength of the enemy and determine if you have the forces necessary to defeat them. Otherwise, go make peace with them. That means, bottom line, FACE THE TRUTH. Be honest about what is true and what is not. As Augustine said, if the world sees people that claim to follow Christ unable to process or understand what is in this world and right before us, how can they trust us to have a lick of sense about what we can't see or prove as regards the Spiritual Truths found in Scripture? Indeed, and I have found this to be so often true, it is often those that aggressively live in denial about what we can learn about and from the world that also live in denial about what the truth of God as it is found in Scripture.
    What "crazy stuff" about evangelicals are speaking of? The fact we believe a crucified man, who defied science with his miracles, rose from the dead after three days and sailed off into the sky to heaven ( I assume you believe that); the fact there is a whole supernatural world out there that intermingles with our world (Holy Spirit, miracles, divine providence, etc)... yeah, man, that's some "crazy stuff," "off in the weeds" type stuff, isn't it? Can science quantify that? Whether you are or aren't an evangelical yourself, that doesn't mean you can't detest them. It's clear in your posts, and everyone sees it, which makes it even more noxious that you claim you identify with them. That just means you either hate yourself or you're just so self-righteous and arrogant, you think you're above them. I tend to lean towards the latter by how you come across in your posts.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  12. Amen Mountain Man, Cerebrum123, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.

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