Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Evangelicals full of fear

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    ... and acting out fear over faith while simultaneously buying into nearly every lame conspiracy theory out there. My wife has a facebook feed. She keeps me updated.
    You mean like the collusion delusion?

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      the ignorance that drove (and still drives) the earlier conversations downplaying the virus among the Trump facing evangelicals is itself born of fear. Fear of knowledge coupled with rampant Paranoia in terms of governmental conspiracy theories. And it still drives a good deal of the conversation here and on various social media outlets.
      I think the biggest fear on this site is the fear that people, who they feel are undeserving, getting rewarded.

      Why should they get free healthcare, when I work hard to pay for mine?

      Why are they getting government housing, when I work hard to pay rent or mortgage?

      Why should they be allowed to immigrate here, when I worked hard to be born here?

      Why should they be allowed to marry, when I worked hard to be straight?

      Why are they in heaven, when I worked hard to be Christian?

      These are our normal reactions (bottom three excluded) because it doesn’t seem fair. It’s like if we help a shopkeeper unload a truck and the shopkeeper rewards us with ice cream then we deserve that ice cream. Then just as we’re about to enjoy it some poor pathetic looking kid walks into the shop and the shopkeeper just gives the kid ice cream because he feels sorry for him.

      Should we be outraged that kid got it for free?

      If your outrage makes you want to snatch the ice cream from the kids hand and throw it as hard as you can onto the side of the truck you just helped unload then it helps to remind ourselves that the greatest reward we’ve ever received was also neither earned or deserved but given to us freely so just enjoy the ice cream and don’t make a scene.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        ...that Charles is an anti-Christian bigot.
        Hey now, what evidence do you have for that charge? I mean aside from the threads he starts and the posts he makes when he isn't very selectively net nannying?

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Charles View Post
          Funny how quoting an Evangelical challenging your double standards who I carefully selected in order to once again attack Christianity makes me and anti-Christian bigot. You must live in a very simplified world...
          FIFY n/c

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Charles View Post
            Messiah College historian John Fea, himself an Evangelical, has some rather interesting observations and thoughts about Evangelicals. A very interesting person. Here is a central quote:
            Somewhat doubting this "John Fea" was, indeed, an Evangelical, I followed the links in the article to see who he was....

            John Fea.jpg

            Great job, Charles!

            ETA:

            What Kind of Christian is John Fea?

            When John moves beyond tit-for-tat, he explains his understanding of government and Christianity’s place in America:
            I believe that government has a responsibility to promote the common good. It should, among other things, protect the dignity of human life, encourage families, promote justice, care for the poor, and protect its citizens and their human rights. I also believe in something akin to the Catholic view of subsidiarity. This means that many of these moral responsibilities are best handled locally. This is why I am very sympathetic to “place”-based thinking and find the arguments put forth by James Davison Hunter in his book To Change the World to be compelling.

            But when morality fails at the local level, such moral failures must be dealt with by higher governmental authorities. For example, I believe that the intervention of the federal government in the integration of schools during the era of the Civil Rights Movement was absolutely necessary. Local governments and white churches in the South failed on this front. Moral intervention was necessary. I use the term “sin” to explain understand what was going on in these racist Southern communities. Others may not use such theological language and prefer to call it “unAmerican” or simply “immoral.” But whatever we call it, I think we can still agree on the fact that what was happening in the Jim Crow South was morally problematic and the federal government needed to act. I hope Hart feels the same way. If he does, I wonder what set of ideas informs his views on this.

            Here John identifies Christianity with morality. Not good. Christianity does point out sin through the moral law. But Christianity actually provides a remedy. Without the remedy, Jesus and the atonement, the moral law is just one big pain in the neck (for the lost, at least). A policy that enacts something that seems like Christian morality is not itself Christian without also including the gospel. This may be the biggest disagreement between John and me. He is willing apparently to regard mere morality as Christian. That means taking to the lost all the imperatives to be righteous without any way to do so. Christian morality, without the gospel, scares the bejeebers out of me (and I don’t think I’m lost), which is another reason for being wary of seeming self-righteous. Who can stand in that great day by appealing to Christian morality? What good is Christianity for America if it doesn’t lead to faith in Christ?


            Which kinda blows up this little bit of drivel...

            Originally posted by Charles View Post
            Funny how quoting an Evangelical challenging your double standards makes me and anti-Christian bigot. You must live in a very simplified world...
            Next time, Charles, don't be such a simpleton in accepting somebody else's use of "Evangelical".
            Last edited by Cow Poke; 04-07-2020, 05:21 AM.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Charles View Post
              Messiah College historian John Fea, himself an Evangelical...
              Screenshot_2020-04-07 I Thought John Fea Is Evangelical.jpg

              Charles, can you please provide some support for your dubious claim that John Fea is "himself an Evangelical". (and note you used the capital E - Evangelical)

              Thanks.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Somewhat doubting this "John Fea" was, indeed, an Evangelical, I followed the links in the article to see who he was....

                [ATTACH=CONFIG]44045[/ATTACH]

                Great job, Charles!

                ETA:

                What Kind of Christian is John Fea?

                When John moves beyond tit-for-tat, he explains his understanding of government and Christianity’s place in America:
                I believe that government has a responsibility to promote the common good. It should, among other things, protect the dignity of human life, encourage families, promote justice, care for the poor, and protect its citizens and their human rights. I also believe in something akin to the Catholic view of subsidiarity. This means that many of these moral responsibilities are best handled locally. This is why I am very sympathetic to “place”-based thinking and find the arguments put forth by James Davison Hunter in his book To Change the World to be compelling.

                But when morality fails at the local level, such moral failures must be dealt with by higher governmental authorities. For example, I believe that the intervention of the federal government in the integration of schools during the era of the Civil Rights Movement was absolutely necessary. Local governments and white churches in the South failed on this front. Moral intervention was necessary. I use the term “sin” to explain understand what was going on in these racist Southern communities. Others may not use such theological language and prefer to call it “unAmerican” or simply “immoral.” But whatever we call it, I think we can still agree on the fact that what was happening in the Jim Crow South was morally problematic and the federal government needed to act. I hope Hart feels the same way. If he does, I wonder what set of ideas informs his views on this.

                Here John identifies Christianity with morality. Not good. Christianity does point out sin through the moral law. But Christianity actually provides a remedy. Without the remedy, Jesus and the atonement, the moral law is just one big pain in the neck (for the lost, at least). A policy that enacts something that seems like Christian morality is not itself Christian without also including the gospel. This may be the biggest disagreement between John and me. He is willing apparently to regard mere morality as Christian. That means taking to the lost all the imperatives to be righteous without any way to do so. Christian morality, without the gospel, scares the bejeebers out of me (and I don’t think I’m lost), which is another reason for being wary of seeming self-righteous. Who can stand in that great day by appealing to Christian morality? What good is Christianity for America if it doesn’t lead to faith in Christ?


                Which kinda blows up this little bit of drivel...



                Next time, Charles, don't be such a simpleton in accepting somebody else's use of "Evangelical".
                It seems that the only real evangelical is one who thinks like you!

                Edit to add: Yes, MLK was Christian. Yes MLK was evangelical. Yes, black Christians of the SBC are evangelical. Yes, Baptists are capable of making informed decisions and reflecting the movement of the Holy Spirit.

                And Yes, a Black Baptist is capable of writing Letter from a Birmingham Jail without needing to resort to plagiarism.
                Last edited by simplicio; 04-07-2020, 05:53 AM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                  It seems that the only real evangelical is one who thinks like you!
                  I'm asking a question - have not come to any conclusion. And your little virtue signaling pitch-a-fit has NOTHING to do with this subject.

                  Edit to add: Yes, MLK was Christian. Yes MLK was evangelical. Yes, black Christians of the SBC are evangelical. Yes, Baptists are capable of making informed decisions and reflecting the movement of the Holy Spirit.
                  Did somebody put something in your coffee? Never denied ANY of this.

                  And Yes, a Black Baptist is capable of writing Letter from a Birmingham Jail without needing to resort to plagiarism.
                  I think you woke up in the wrong thread.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    I'm asking a question - have not come to any conclusion. And your little virtue signaling pitch-a-fit has NOTHING to do with this subject.



                    Did somebody put something in your coffee? Never denied ANY of this.



                    I think you woke up in the wrong thread.
                    No, you clearly have cast doubt on John Fea credentials as a bona fide evangelical. Just how can Charles demonstrate that John Fea is indeed a real evangelical?

                    While you "never denied any of this", you did post enthusiastically and argue against those positions.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                      No, you clearly have cast doubt on John Fea credentials as a bona fide evangelical.
                      I asked a question because it doesn't appear he is an Evangelical -- capital E.

                      Just how can Charles demonstrate that John Fea is indeed a real evangelical?
                      That's an incredibly dishonest rendition of my actual quote which was...
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Charles, can you please provide some support for your dubious claim that John Fea is "himself an Evangelical". (and note you used the capital E - Evangelical)

                      Thanks.

                      However, he probably won't even try to defend his goofy assertion that Fea is an Evangelical.

                      While you "never denied any of this", you did post enthusiastically and argue against those positions.
                      And, yet again, the manure spreader malfunctioned and threw the whole load all at once!
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        After failing to adress John Fea's points. And after failing to support the idea that he is pro homosexuals or whatever ideas some twebbers provide to focus on the person instead of the message we are now seeing them move to another strategy along those lines: There must be something wrong about him. Perhaps he is not even an evangelical.

                        Cow Poke seems to be unaware of the very basic fact that webpages are updated now and then und this a link may turn out to not provide information. A simple, simple google search would have given him this:

                        https://www.messiah.edu/a/academics/...=9&entryID=453

                        But it seems he was more concerned with giving the impression that there was no information about John Fea than finding any information.

                        In the link I already provided, one can easily see that John Fea identifies as an Evangelical:

                        "The primary reading audience is my fellow evangelicals," Fea explained in a recent interview, "but there's a secondary audience, and that is anyone who wants to understand why 81 percent of evangelicals supported Donald Trump."
                        There is a number of videos en which he identifies as an evangelical as well. Here is just one example:

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uagHfIvezqE (0:30)

                        In his opinion piece: 'Evangelicals for Trump' was an awful display by supposed citizens of the Kingdom of God he talks about his own background:

                        I have spent my entire adult life in the evangelical community. I had a born-again experience when I was 16 and never looked back. I teach history at a Christian college with evangelical roots. As a historian, I study American evangelicalism.
                        He once again describes Evangelicals as his fellow Evangelicals:
                        I watched my fellow evangelicals rising to their feet and pumping their fists when Trump said he would win reelection in 2020.
                        Along the lines of the opening post (that you have still failed to deliver any substantial response to) he goes on to write:

                        Trump spent the evening mocking his enemies, trafficking in half-truths in order to instill fear in people whom God commands to “fear not,” and proving that he is incapable of expressing anything close to Christian humility.

                        His evangelical supporters loved every minute of it. That night, Christians who claim to be citizens of the Kingdom of God went to church, cheered the depraved words of a president and warmly embraced his offer of political power. Such a display by evangelicals is unprecedented in American history.

                        I usually get angry when members of my tribe worship at the feet of Trump. This time, I just felt sad.
                        Let me know when you get to the point when you can focus on what he is actually saying instead of focusing on what you would like to imagine he is saying, what others are saying about him, who Charles is and whatever. It as alway interesting to note that some of you seem to be so determined to response to the thread yet seemingly find it impossible to adress the actual message but desperataly need to talk about something else. Must be hard to find yourself in that situation.
                        Last edited by Charles; 04-07-2020, 06:48 AM.
                        "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Charles View Post
                          After failing to adress John Fea's points.....
                          Actually, I questioned the premise on which your OP was made.

                          John Fea does not appear, by any means, to be an Evangelical.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Charles View Post
                            Cow Poke seems to be unaware of the very basic fact that webpages are updated now and then und this a link may turn out to not provide information.....
                            Wrong --- I actually did the research myself, and am still waiting for you to back up your premise.

                            Charles seems completely ignorant on the difference between evangelical and Evangelical. He unwittingly uses these terms interchangeably, appearing to be totally incapable of discerning the difference.

                            Case in point....
                            Charles writes..... He once again describes Evangelicals as his fellow Evangelicals:
                            But he quotes.... I watched my fellow evangelicals rising to their feet and pumping their fists when Trump said he would win reelection in 2020.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Wrong --- I actually did the research myself, and am still waiting for you to back up your premise.

                              Charles seems completely ignorant on the difference between evangelical and Evangelical. He unwittingly uses these terms interchangeably, appearing to be totally incapable of discerning the difference.

                              Case in point....
                              Charles writes..... He once again describes Evangelicals as his fellow Evangelicals:
                              But he quotes.... I watched my fellow evangelicals rising to their feet and pumping their fists when Trump said he would win reelection in 2020.
                              And what I was pointing to was what would be described as evangelical.

                              Yet, you have still failed to adress the point of a common Christian, an evangelical. You have only not been able to adress his points so far and I doubt you will ever get there. If you believe the most important thing when he adresses these points is whether he is an Evangelical or an evangelical you must be really, really narrow minded.

                              Let me guess: You will fail to adress his points in the next post as well. You will focus on my person, his person, "E" of "e" or anything that will give you a pass to not talk about the point he made.
                              "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                Actually, I questioned the premise on which your OP was made.

                                John Fea does not appear, by any means, to be an Evangelical.
                                It appears that while being called an "Evangelical historian" by sites like vox, salon and the dailykos, it might be more accurate to say that he is an historian who writes about evangelicals -- and usually in an unflattering manner.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                119 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                319 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                111 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                196 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                360 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X