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Thread: Evangelicals full of fear

  1. #171
    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    It's the two or three days following the last frost.
    What is the "last frost"?



    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  2. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  3. #172
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    What is the "last frost"?

    the 10 minutes between winter and summer.

  4. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    the 10 minutes between winter and summer.
    Oh, that. Why didn't you just say so!


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  5. #174
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    Oh, that. Why didn't you just say so!

  6. Amen mossrose amen'd this post.
  7. #175
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post


    A very substantive post and not something at all meant to attack.

  8. #176
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Is John Fea a Christian?

    Is John Fea an evangelical?

    Or was all the hubub of the capital E just a diversion?

    I am pretty sure the author of the OP would say yes to both questions. But I am interested in hearing from Christians here.
    Bump. Posters have been quick to claim that anyone unfavorable is not really evangelical, not really Christian (e.g. Mark Galli threads, discussion on CRT or progressive Christians, hey is MLK really a bible Christian?) I do realize that this thread devolved because of the use of the capital letter in Evangelical which changes the meaning of evangelical!

  9. #177
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Bump. Posters have been quick to claim that anyone unfavorable is not really evangelical, not really Christian...
    Um... no... nobody has questioned whether or not Fea is a Christian or an evangelical. The only point of dispute concerned whether or not he was an Evangelical (with a capital E) like Chuck claimed, and it seems the answer is no.

    That aside, Fea's exact qualifications and why we should regard him as an authoritative voice in his critique of other Christians remains a mystery.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  10. #178
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    You have really hit the nail on the head there Charles. Modern 'E'vangelical Christianity has become an unholy alliance between conservative american politics where worldly hate and hostility supplant the teachings of Christ when what Christ taught demands a break with that same politics.

    But dont make the mistake of thinking this unfortunate element is the whole story, or that one can somehow characterize an entire group of people fully by this trend. Most 'E'vangelicals are still the sort of people that will see a homeless man and try to help, even if they will side with Trump on immigration. Who will invite a troubled teen into their homes and take them under their wing.

    Case in point, Franklin Graham. A staunch Trump supporter, runs a massive relief organization Samaritan's Purse that sends hospital ships to poor countries and which has been instrumental in relief in various disasters across the world, including the Christmas tidal wave in 2004/2005.

    It's a bizarre situation, but one which so far resists resolution.
    Thanks. You are completely right, it is a bizarre situation.

    I have a lot of experience with Christian communities, so I know so many examples where you have those strange situations where people are doing huge amounts of good in some contexts and then behave really bad in other. In my experience this most often happens when faith is not the only driving factor. The typical example is institutionalized religion. And, of course, combining it with politics is to just make it even worse.

    What I have seen are heart breaking examples of how respected “authorities” within the Christian community cannot handle the fact that their own son turns out to be a homosexual, an atheist, gets his girlfriend pregnant way too early or whatever. It is in those cases where care for the community, the church, Christian school, reputation or whatever gets in the way of pure and basic love.

    I have seen parents who were unable to see their own kids for quite long periods because they could not communicate with them after they told they were homosexuals. I have seen all these instances in which people slowly lose their faith and instead of showing love and care, the church sends a “bully” to “address” the situation. Someone who will question whether they should even allow to doubt, someone who will try to make the questions they are asking look stupid. Someone who will say “Mr. X would rather trust himself than God” and evil stuff like that.

    And again, it might preach to the choir, inside church. So, you get to the point where it is no longer driven by love and respect for the individual person but respect for the Christian community, reputation and the like. And that situation is not caused by the disagreement on the religious matter. It is caused by the fact that love for the individual is lost because other things are found to be more important.

    In these cases the bad side of religion really shines through, because some people think they have a God given obligation to take care of the reputation and thus know no limit for the harsh tone and unfriendly manner in which to react, when their authority or the authority of “fellow Christians” is put in to question. The harsh and unfriendly tone you, and I mean you, Ox, have to face in here, and even some places in this very thread, are examples of people who donÂ’t know what to do when authority is no longer enough in itself. It is their way of raising the voice and they obviously, so obviously, forget to show love while doing so. There are so many posts in this very thread where even just basic decency is lost.

    On a more positive note I know examples where those fathers, preachers, whomever go to their sons, former friends and whomever and apologize maybe 20 or 30 years later. They still think it is wrong to be a homosexual, an atheist or whatever. That is not what they apologize for. They apologize for loosing the ability to show love in that situation, to simply love the person they disagreed with, to still be a father for the son. Though I think some of these people really, really failed, I certainly respect them for saying sorry and I feel sorry for them having to realize more than 20 years too late that they failed to be loving and caring fathers for their own children.

    Having said all that, these very people are the same who would hide refugees whose lives were in danger so the authorities could not find them. They would risk prison for that. (No wonder these people shake their heads at “Christian” Trump supporters). They would sell their houses to stay in other parts of the world in order to preach, build houses, churches, schools, hospitals and whatever.

    At the risk of sounding a little childish one could say it is a magnifying glass both for good and evil. However, and this perhaps is the most absurd part, it is so easy to see that Christianity is not in itself the cause of those problems. They are caused by people with “authority” within Christian communities who, when it all comes down, act contrary to what Jesus told.
    Last edited by Charles; 04-10-2020 at 08:50 AM.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

  11. Amen oxmixmudd amen'd this post.
  12. #179
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Um... no... nobody has questioned whether or not Fea is a Christian or an evangelical. The only point of dispute concerned whether or not he was an Evangelical (with a capital E) like Chuck claimed, and it seems the answer is no.

    That aside, Fea's exact qualifications and why we should regard him as an authoritative voice in his critique of other Christians remains a mystery.
    I know, Christians have been very....discursive on the topic. But we do have the past examples of Christians, including Cowpoke who raised this bizarre argument over the capital E, when it comes to Christians they disagree with. Mark Galli is an example. The not a Christian and not an evangelical is a common tack used here.

    Just who is an authoritative voice, in you opinion?

    Edit to add: Is this the first time this argument about the distinctions between Evangelical and evangelical has come up here?
    Last edited by simplicio; 04-10-2020 at 08:58 AM.

  13. #180
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    I know, Christians have been very....discursive on the topic. But we do have the past examples of Christians, including Cowpoke who raised this bizarre argument over the capital E, when it comes to Christians they disagree with. Mark Galli is an example. The not a Christian and not an evangelical is a common tack used here.

    Just who is an authoritative voice, in you opinion?

    Edit to add: Is this the first time this argument about the distinctions between Evangelical and evangelical has come up here?
    Um... I don't think Cowpoke was making any sort of argument. He was simply questioning Chuck trying to puff up Fea's credentials by claiming he was something he wasn't. Although I do find it interesting that you would deflect my wondering what makes Fea an authoritative voice by trying to turn the question back on me. I assume you don't have a satisfactory answer.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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