Evangelicals full of fear

[Mountain Man]

I have seen parents who were unable to see their own kids for quite long periods because they could not communicate with them after they told they were homosexuals. I have seen all these instances in which people slowly lose their faith and instead of showing love and care, the church sends a “bully” to “address” the situation. Someone who will question whether they should even allow to doubt, someone who will try to make the questions they are asking look stupid. Someone who will say “Mr. X would rather trust himself than God” and evil stuff like that.

Weird. It's almost like Christians aren't perfect or something. This is truly a stunning revelation.

As a preacher once said, "I would love to be like Paul and say, 'Follow me as I follow Christ,' but in my case, I think it's best if I say just follow Christ."

[Charles]

Um... I don't think Cowpoke was making any sort of argument. He was simply questioning Chuck trying to puff up Fea's credentials by claiming he was something he wasn't. Although I do find it interesting that you would deflect my wondering what makes Fea an authoritative voice by trying to turn the question back on me. I assume you don't have a satisfactory answer.

First things wrote:

We here at First Things capitalize “Evangelical,” not least because it so often appears alongside Catholic and we want a kind of visual parity, and also because they should not have the word to themselves. https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/fi...italize-or-not

Back in 2012 Matthew W. Kingsbury had been a minister of Word and sacrament in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church for 20 years. He wrote:

Alert readers may have noticed the unusual capitalization of "Evangelical" and "Evangelicalism" in a couple of the articles. The stylebooks frown on this, because Evangelicalism is a movement and not an official body, but we do it to give Evangelicalism a kind of typographic equality with Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

However, when I do the same it there must be something wrong. After all Cow Poke provided a quora definition provided by a random user who advices us to do otherwise. It also failed to mention all the other examples of when capital E should be used according to Merriam Webster.

Anyway, you are right about Cow Poke never making any sort of argument. He seemingly could not. And neither did you answer simplicio's question.

[Charles]

Weird. It's almost like Christians aren't perfect or something. This is truly a stunning revelation.

As a preacher once said, "I would love to be like Paul and say, 'Follow me as I follow Christ,' but in my case, I think it's best if I say just follow Christ."

Well, no humans are perfect. However, the main point was to point out how certain conditions, certain factors caused people who are otherwise very good persons to go in the wrong direction.

[Mountain Man]

Well, no humans are perfect. However, the main point was to point out how certain conditions, certain factors caused people who are otherwise very good persons to go in the wrong direction.

I reject your premise and hidden assumptions.

[lilpixieofterror]

No CP, the people here that use reason and logic as a basis for their positions and comments, Christian and non Christian, tend to find agreement with me more often than folks like you, MM, likpix, Mike witney etc. That is the difference you should note.

Then He told them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be great earthquakes, famines, and pestilences in various places, along with fearful sights and great signs from heaven.

But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. On account of My name they will deliver you to the synagogues and prisons, and they will bring you before kings and governors. This will be your opportunity to serve as witnesses. So make up your mind not to worry beforehand how to defend yourselves. For I will give you speech and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict.

You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and some of you will be put to death. And you will be hated by everyone because of My name. Yet not even a hair of your head will perish. By your patient endurance you will gain your souls.

Luke 21:10-19

You want to characterize it as a faith difference, I get that. But that is not the actual difference. But on that, you have completely lost sight of some of the most basic tenets of our faith, which focus almost completely on our personal character and inner basic attitudes towards others. You are comfortable with and even defend a constant denigratuon of others on this site. This is not what Christ calls us to. And as a result I have great concern for you.

And this comes from Mr living in fear while accusing the rest of us being in fear? Don’t make me laugh.

However, with your tendency to dig in which will corrupt your soul even further I'm putting you on virtual ignore in the hope you will let God speak to you on this while I remove myself from the picture. I pray you will allow Him to change you in this area.

“I’m better than you!”

What did Jesus say about those living in fear?
Did he say people will hate us for his name?

Looks like I’m on the right track, what about you?

[simplicio]

Um... I don't think Cowpoke was making any sort of argument. He was simply questioning Chuck trying to puff up Fea's credentials by claiming he was something he wasn't. Although I do find it interesting that you would deflect my wondering what makes Fea an authoritative voice by trying to turn the question back on me. I assume you don't have a satisfactory answer.

John Fea is as authoritative a voice as many a Christian elite. He is an historian who has studies and written extensively about the evangelical movement, and is a columnist at Patheos, and blogs at The way of improvement. He is a thoughtful writeer

Just how was Charles trying to puff up Fea's credentials? He is a history instructor at Messiah college, and so has training in history. I did not see anything to suggest the Charles was exaggerating his credentials in any way.

I did ask if the distinction between evangelical and Evangelical has come up before.

[Sparko]

never heard of the guy.

[Mountain Man]

John Fea is as authoritative a voice as many a Christian elite. He is an historian who has studies and written extensively about the evangelical movement, and is a columnist at Patheos, and blogs at The way of improvement. He is a thoughtful writeer

So what? There are any number of Christians who could boast similar credentials. What exactly makes Fea in particular an authoritative voice?

Perhaps it would help if you understood that unlike Catholicism, protestant Christianity doesn't have "Christian elites" like priests and popes that everybody is obligated to listen to. John Fea is just some guy with an opinion, and you can take it or leave it.

[Cow Poke]

A very substantive post and not something at all meant to attack.

It was most certainly and unapologetically mocking your goofy statement. Again, I'm not the one crying about "personal attacks".

[Cow Poke]

Um... no... nobody has questioned whether or not Fea is a Christian or an evangelical. The only point of dispute concerned whether or not he was an Evangelical (with a capital E) like Chuck claimed, and it seems the answer is no.

How come you can get this when others can't?

[Cow Poke]

I know, Christians have been very....discursive on the topic. But we do have the past examples of Christians, including Cowpoke who raised this bizarre argument over the capital E, ...

I make the same observations about Evangelical vs evangelical as I do with Orthodox vs orthodox.

[Cow Poke]

Anyway, you are right about Cow Poke never making any sort of argument.

This would be an outright lie, as there are plenty of posts where I make an argument, despite the fact that I rarely find your posts worthy of serious response.

[Cow Poke]

never heard of the guy.

Never before this thread, no.

[Mountain Man]

How come you can get this when others can't?

Cuz I smarte!

[David Hayward]

There are currently more than 130 posts in the thread and very, very few try to even address the points made in the opening post. What further speaks to support the idea that it is diversion is that Cow Poke never has and seemingly never will be able to address the points in the opening post.

Precisely – please specify – what is there to address?

The only “points” I can detect in your opening post, reproduced below, are that 1) you find the observations and thoughts about evangelicals of Messiah College historian John Fea, himself an evangelical interesting. Er, yes? You as an individual find Fea's observations and thoughts interesting. So? You write of “points made”, but your giving information about what you find interesting is no more a “point”, still less a debating point, than the fact that I find my work interesting.

In the absence of any indication that you know Fea or have corresponded in any way, your second “point made” (whatever you mean by that), namely 2) “A very interesting person”, seems merely to declare you also find him interesting as a person (and fails to give any indication why it is that you, personally, find him, personally, interesting.)

There's no content there to engage with, no “points made”.

Messiah College historian John Fea, himself an Evangelical, has some rather interesting observations and thoughts about Evangelicals. A very interesting person. Here is a central quote:
.

"It's very strange and somewhat ironic that anyone who reads the Bible will find a lot of exhortations against fear," says Fea. "Fear represents a kind of lack of faith in God's sovereignty or God's will to work out his purposes. I love the quote from Marylinne Robinson: 'Fear is not a Christian habit of mind.' Fear is a product of the broken world that we live in, but fear is not a place where one can dwell and still claim to be an evangelical Christian. It produces negative consequences.

"What's striking here is that evangelicals have in almost every circumstance where there's some kind of change in the culture, have not responded with hospitality to the stranger, with grace, with hope, with the idea that people who are different from them have been created in the image of God and have that dignity and worth. Instead they have built their walls and protected themselves against people they fear Fear. [It's] an inherent contradiction for anyone who takes the Bible seriously. That's what I'm trying to call people to think about in this book. Why are we so afraid? We love to claim a big God who controls everything and will work out his purposes for good as it says in Romans. Their politics is driven by fear much more than any kind hope." https://www.popmatters.com/believe-m...579257864.html

You followed that with a “central quote”, though without an explanation why. I refuse to guess, and I deduce from your complaint that there are “currently more than 130 posts in the thread and very, very few try to even address the points made in the opening post” that other than a very, very few – are there any at all, I seem to have missed those replies(*) – just about everybody else refuses to guess, too.


(* Looking back, I reckon Mountain Man addressed both of your “points made” when he replied:

John Fea is just some guy with an opinion, and you can take it or leave it.

Most here seem to have gone with “leave it”.)