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Evangelicals full of fear

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  • Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
    Your use of the Bible to support the idea that you can just make statements you will not support, then claim you will do so later, and when held up to that still refuse to do so is surely taking the message of that book in vain. It is a complete disrespect for the actual message of that book to use it as some sort of ad hominem justified by God. What a testimony.
    Oh, you respect what the Bible has to say, do you? What about:

    "The fool has said in heart, 'There is no God.'"
    "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
    "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord."
    "If it is evil in your eyes to serve the LORD, choose this day whom you will serve [...] As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Charles View Post
      Your use of the Bible to support the idea that you can just make statements you will not support, then claim you will do so later, and when held up to that still refuse to do so is surely taking the message of that book in vain. It is a complete disrespect for the actual message of that book to use it as some sort of ad hominem justified by God. What a testimony.
      The Bible itself is full of "ad hominems" not only justified by God, but coming directly from God himself. One of the core messages/teachings of the bible, namely the fact that our hearts are rotten and full of evil is nothing but a big massive "ad hominem" against all of mankind. The Bible even says that a person who doesn't believe that God exists is a "fool".

      You have no idea what the "actual message" of "that book" is.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
        The Bible itself is full of "ad hominems" not only justified by God, but coming directly from God himself. One of the core messages/teachings of the bible, namely the fact that our hearts are rotten and full of evil is nothing but a big massive "ad hominem" against all of mankind. The Bible even says that a person who doesn't believe that God exists is a "fool".

        You have no idea what the "actual message" of "that book" is.
        It's snowflake culture that has come to define insults as "EVIL!"
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          It's snowflake culture that has come to define insults as "EVIL!"
          no, it's the snowflake culture that thinks you win by playing victim, hoping the other side will back down and apologize.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            no, it's the snowflake culture that thinks you win by playing victim, hoping the other side will back down and apologize.
            The "cry bully" phenomenon.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              The "cry bully" phenomenon.
              You bigot!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                If all you care about the statements in the Bible for is to use them to avoid having to provide sources for statements you make about other persons that you seemingly cannot support, then what you provide is not pearls before swine. We are getting closer to something that is unfit, even for swine.
                Originally posted by Charles View Post
                Your use of the Bible to support the idea that you can just make statements you will not support, then claim you will do so later, and when held up to that still refuse to do so is surely taking the message of that book in vain. It is a complete disrespect for the actual message of that book to use it as some sort of ad hominem justified by God. What a testimony.
                Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                The Bible itself is full of "ad hominems" not only justified by God, but coming directly from God himself. One of the core messages/teachings of the bible, namely the fact that our hearts are rotten and full of evil is nothing but a big massive "ad hominem" against all of mankind. The Bible even says that a person who doesn't believe that God exists is a "fool".

                You have no idea what the "actual message" of "that book" is.
                That's some cool exegesis!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  I don't know what you think you're doing here, ox. First of all, your definition of "scientific literacy" seems to be "Anybody who happens to agree with my opinion about science", and the irony, of course, is that there are any number of atheists who would happily give you that label because of your belief that God is the author of the universe, that the miracles described in the Bible are true, that Jesus rose from the dead, etc., and yet you join with them in mocking any of your fellow Christians who might disagree with you about the age of the earth, and whether man is causing the earth to become catastrophically warmer. Do you think this somehow gives you an "in" with them and will make your witness stronger? I doubt it.
                  You may doubt it, but who would you listen to - some-one who has studied the testaments and the apocrypha, read/understood WLC, RtB and JPH, and is familiar with the majority of apologetics arguments; or some-one who is clearly clueless and keeps insisting Moses would have died in the flood?

                  Although I disagree with Jim, I take his points seriously - unlike those of imbeciles who post nonsense about Egyptian pyramids hidden under Antarctic ice.
                  Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                  MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                  MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                  seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                    The Bible itself is full of "ad hominems" not only justified by God, but coming directly from God himself. One of the core messages/teachings of the bible, namely the fact that our hearts are rotten and full of evil is nothing but a big massive "ad hominem" against all of mankind. The Bible even says that a person who doesn't believe that God exists is a "fool".

                    You have no idea what the "actual message" of "that book" is.
                    The huge difference is "comming directly from God". Since Cow Poke is not God there is a difference. And I hope you note that ad hominem is used to attack a person in order to avoid the point in this case. I hope you are not suggesting that is an approach supported by the Bible?

                    I hope you are not suggesting I can make all sorts of claims about a person, refuse to support then and when asked to do so just go for ad hominem. Religious or not that is a completely dishonest method.

                    Again, if you feel that the Bible if your ticket to attack persons who ask you to support claims you make about other persons with a source, you have no idea what the message is.

                    Note that the attacks in the Bible are founded on something. They are not your ticket to avoid basic support of your own claims.
                    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      You may doubt it, but who would you listen to - some-one who has studied the testaments and the apocrypha, read/understood WLC, RtB and JPH, and is familiar with the majority of apologetics arguments; or some-one who is clearly clueless and keeps insisting Moses would have died in the flood?

                      Although I disagree with Jim, I take his points seriously - unlike those of imbeciles who post nonsense about Egyptian pyramids hidden under Antarctic ice.
                      Heh. Just wait till the ice sheet melts down there. Then you'll be a believer.

                      Comment


                      • On tweb I have often seen the straw man along the lines of claiming that: "Oh, you did not know there were insults in the Bible. You know nothing about the book" (not a direct quote). Then such a statement is followed by all sorts of completely well know statements from the Bible as if it would be breaking news.

                        The point very often missed in such statements is the context in which they are used, by whom they are used (even the Christians on tweb are neither God nor Jesus). However, if you feel like supporting the idea that the Bible provides all sorts af attacks you can use for lack of something substantial to say or instead of providing evidence I think that is quite revealing of your general approach. If that is what you are building your world view on in general, it is no surprise that you can miss important insights of science if you can always pick an insult from The Good Book in order to avoid inconvenient truth.
                        "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                          The huge difference is "comming directly from God". Since Cow Poke is not God there is a difference. And I hope you note that ad hominem is used to attack a person in order to avoid the point in this case. I hope you are not suggesting that is an approach supported by the Bible?

                          I hope you are not suggesting I can make all sorts of claims about a person, refuse to support then and when asked to do so just go for ad hominem. Religious or not that is a completely dishonest method.

                          Again, if you feel that the Bible if your ticket to attack persons who ask you to support claims you make about other persons with a source, you have no idea what the message is.

                          Note that the attacks in the Bible are founded on something. They are not your ticket to avoid basic support of your own claims.
                          The Bible does not give anyone "the ticket to attack persons who [honestly] ask you to support claims you make about other persons with a source". What it does give you however, is the right to call out disingenuous people who use a feigned interest and care about what the Bible says in order to try and browbeating you into giving in to their demands, which is exactly what you are doing here.

                          Apparently it's Cow Poke's judgement that your demanding of him to back up his claims, and your subsequent claim that he is using the Bible to avoid having to back them up, is nothing but disingenuity on your part, and so far from what I've read in this discussion, I'm inclined to agree with that assessment.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                            The Bible does not give anyone "the ticket to attack persons who [honestly] ask you to support claims you make about other persons with a source". What it does give you however, is the right to call out disingenuous people who use a feigned interest and care about what the Bible says in order to try and browbeating you into giving in to their demands, which is exactly what you are doing here.

                            Apparently it's Cow Poke's judgement that your demanding of him to back up his claims, and your subsequent claim that he is using the Bible to avoid having to back them up, is nothing but disingenuity on your part, and so far from what I've read in this discussion, I'm inclined to agree with that assessment.
                            Seriously? This is about clarifying the confusing stance CP has staked out on the importance of the capital E in the word evangelical. MM said he was not aware of the distinction, and CP has waffled between two different meanings himself. This is probably the first time it has been proposed on Tweb.

                            CP cannot back up his claims, they are fatuous. And any clarification he does make will demonstrate that he was trolling this thread to divert it, and they will counter his own posts and arguments used.

                            I tried to draw him out in this thread, but he always manages to find some excuse. For instance, in the English language, the phrase "if that was all you were interested in" does not mean that Charles is saying that he actually believes that is all CP is interested in. Another instance is when I asked about Fea's credentials because I did not understand his positions. I proposed a few stances which might be construed, including abortion. CP latched onto one partial phrase to dismiss the post, relieving himself of having to try and explain his position.

                            Do you think that distinction between Evangelical and evangelical is clear? Also can one be an evangelical and an historian while facing squarely the problems within evangelicalism?
                            Last edited by simplicio; 04-21-2020, 06:09 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                              The Bible does not give anyone "the ticket to attack persons who [honestly] ask you to support claims you make about other persons with a source". What it does give you however, is the right to call out disingenuous people who use a feigned interest and care about what the Bible says in order to try and browbeating you into giving in to their demands, which is exactly what you are doing here.

                              Apparently it's Cow Poke's judgement that your demanding of him to back up his claims, and your subsequent claim that he is using the Bible to avoid having to back them up, is nothing but disingenuity on your part, and so far from what I've read in this discussion, I'm inclined to agree with that assessment.
                              It is very, very simple. Cow Poke makes a statement that a certain person holds a particular view. He does not support the statement. I have asked him to support that statement several times and he will not or cannot. The last time I asked he found it proper to use for swine statement. What you adress in the first part has got nothing to do with what I am doing here. I am not even asking him anything that has got to do with the Bible. Are you sure you even know what I asked him about? Perhaps you should get a hold of the context?

                              So, once again, Cow Poke makes a stament about a person. Asking him to back that up is disingenuity?

                              It is a bit funny that when you claim "which is exactly what you are doing here" you reveal that you do not even know the context you are talking into.
                              Last edited by Charles; 04-21-2020, 07:12 AM.
                              "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                                [...]Although I disagree with Jim, I take his points seriously [...]
                                I completely agree with this part. I think some Christians make the fallacy of equating the fact that we take him seriously with the fact that he agrees with us. There is not only a world but a universe of a difference between the two. I do not agree with him on matters related to faith but I take his points seriosly because he can support his claims, is honest, has integrity and - perhaps even most important when it comes to trust - he is willing to admit it if he has made an error.
                                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                                Comment

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