WHO is Really Responsible For The Pandemic?

[seer]

I see a rather unlogical tendency among some posters in this thread and in the very title of it to assume that it could not possibly be that both China, WHO and Trump were to blame. When people start to analyze from such a narrow minded mindset you should not be surprised that the conclusions are given before they start to analyze.

Charles there are a number of threads blaming Trump, this one is about China and the WHO. If you don't like it leave.

[Charles]

Charles there are a number of threads blaming Trump, this one is about China and the WHO. If you don't like it leave.

I was not blaming Trump. I was only pointing out that if it is a given beforehand that only one part can be blamed, you are using a method that will not give you a balanced result if you talk about the entire pandemic. If you want to limit the scope that is fair enough, just remember you will also limit your ability to explain for what went wrong after the initial errors or lies were made. I have made my point and will leave now.

[JimL]

From the NYT:

A top White House adviser starkly warned Trump administration officials in late January that the coronavirus crisis could cost the United States trillions of dollars and put millions of Americans at risk of illness or death.

The warning, written in a memo by Peter Navarro, President Trump’s trade adviser, is the highest-level alert known to have circulated inside the West Wing as the administration was taking its first substantive steps to confront a crisis that had already consumed China’s leaders and would go on to upend life in Europe and the United States.

“The lack of immune protection or an existing cure or vaccine would leave Americans defenseless in the case of a full-blown coronavirus outbreak on U.S. soil,” Mr. Navarro’s memo said. “This lack of protection elevates the risk of the coronavirus evolving into a full-blown pandemic, imperiling the lives of millions of Americans.”

Yes, but of course Trump, according to the liar and chief, never got the memo.

[JimL]

Because properly blaming China for their lies would mean he can’t blame Trump and his hatred of Trump is far too powerful to blame China for all their lies.

Wrong, you can blame China for their faults and also blame Trump for his. Well, at least you could do that if you were capable of being objective.

[lilpixieofterror]

Wrong, you can blame China for their faults and also blame Trump for his. Well, at least you could do that if you were capable of being objective.

You’re not capable of being objective Jimmy. The ‘experts’ were saying the same thing in January and February. Attempting to rewrite history will not make those facts go away.

[oxmixmudd]

From what I am seing Dr. Deborah Birx, Dr. Fauci, and Jerome Adams are taking the lead here and they are not scientifically illiterate ideologues. But I know you can't help yourself Jim, so please stop or leave.

No they are not, and I most certainly was not referring to them. But Fauci was not among the voices encouraging an easter return to work, and it is those voices to which I refer. And thankfully Fauci has been persuasive and Trump has listened to him in the last part of March and so far in April.

[seer]

I was not blaming Trump. I was only pointing out that if it is a given beforehand that only one part can be blamed, you are using a method that will not give you a balanced result if you talk about the entire pandemic. If you want to limit the scope that is fair enough, just remember you will also limit your ability to explain for what went wrong after the initial errors or lies were made. I have made my point and will leave now.

Again, why can't we put the full weight on China?

University of Southampton study found there would have been a 95% REDUCTION in cases & less spread if Beijing intervened 3 wks sooner.

[seer]

Yes, but of course Trump, according to the liar and chief, never got the memo.

Jim please leave my thread.

[seer]

No they are not, and I most certainly was not referring to them. But Fauci was not among the voices encouraging an easter return to work, and it is those voices to which I refer. And thankfully Fauci has been persuasive and Trump has listened to him in the last part of March and so far in April.

Jim, Trump was just hoping to return to normal by Easter. He did not say we could. So again stop bashing Trump (there are other threads for that) or leave. I want to deal with the real criminals: China and the WHO.

[demi-conservative]

Again, why can't we put the full weight on China?

University of Southampton study found there would have been a 95% REDUCTION in cases & less spread if Beijing intervened 3 wks sooner.

There would also be about 90+% reduction in cases if the US counties had started lockdown 3 weeks earlier in February.

[Juvenal]

Look, I'm sorry to have to tell you this ...

The only thing that matters now — and it's a question of life and death, not just politics — is getting folks to buy in. Spend the extra minute or two to cool down, and I know how hard it is right now ... and then cut everything from the post that's not helpful.

What Fauci said was that with a handful of cases, 15 IIRC, there was no danger. He ALSO said in that same statement that if there was unknown community spread we were in trouble. And within a week of that statement it was discovered we had significant hidden community spread.

Perfect.

[seer]

There would also be about 90+% reduction in cases if the US counties had started lockdown 3 weeks earlier in February.

If all air travel was stopped sooner it would have helped. But since China and the WHO were lying we did not have a good understanding.

[demi-conservative]

If all air travel was stopped sooner it would have helped. But since China and the WHO were lying we did not have a good understanding.

Excuses. Air travel was stopped end January, the first US lockdowns in early March. Again, there would also be about 90+% reduction in cases if the US counties had started lockdown 3 weeks earlier in February.

The Chinese have a history of hiding the true figures and downplaying the severity, the WHO is known to be corrupt and inefficient. Actually trusting their statements is prima facie incompetence by leaders of any country, and in this case is an obvious excuse.

[seer]

Excuses. Air travel was stopped end January, the first US lockdowns in early March. Again, there would also be about 90+% reduction in cases if the US counties had started lockdown 3 weeks earlier in February.

Well no according to Fauci on Feb.17 the risk to Americans was still small at that point. But we should have stopped flights from Europe earlier. The idea is to keep the virus out of the country in the first place, as much as possible.

The Chinese have a history of hiding the true figures and downplaying the severity, the WHO is known to be corrupt and inefficient. Actually trusting their statements is prima facie incompetence by leaders of any country, and in this case is an obvious excuse.

No excuse - fact. If we didn't know how infectious this virus was we didn't know. Period.

[oxmixmudd]

Jim, Trump was just hoping to return to normal by Easter. He did not say we could. So again stop bashing Trump (there are other threads for that) or leave. I want to deal with the real criminals: China and the WHO.

Explain to me how being thankful Trump is listening to Fauci and not other voices around him espousing different policies than Fauci is bashing Trump. If I am to avoid bashing Trump, I need to understand why you interpreted that comment as bashing Trump, because as far as I could tell I was complimenting Trump for listening the Fauci and not those other voices.