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Thread: COVID-19 Challenge

  1. #1
    tWebber
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    COVID-19 Challenge

    I noted in another thread how big of an issue this COVID-19 is and that this is worth our time to investigate things. My reputation is very low with several people here -- but that is not the topic of this thread. (It is well covered in other threads.) So my other posts do not often influence or help people.

    I made this list somewhat in light of what I suggested to Starlight and others earlier today. Is anyone willing and qualified to take up individual points of investigation here? Can these investigations be done with attention to multiple sides of the issues?

    Sorry if the questions are tilted in any direction. Add some other areas of investigation that could be done -- but do this to balance out this list -- not to attack me. I don't want focus to be on the list but rather on the points that can be researched. Can we focus the discussion to the points made by the specialists (with the pro and con views provided)?

    How Bad is COVID-19?
    1. Who says it is horrible? What qualifications and support are there? Who counters this?
    2. Who says it is like the flu? Are the observations trustworthy? Are the observations really due to locality?
    3. What are the clear symptoms? The symptoms for severe cases?
    4. Why are some cities and states having low results? Who has argued isolation has done this? Who has argued that the virus does not have intrinsic likelihood to expand those places?
    5. Why are New York numbers stronger than so many other states? Counter explanations?
    6. Are there multiple diseases happening?


    Nature of COVID-19 Testing
    1. How were tests developed
    2. What do the tests look for?
    3. What do the test results mean or are used for? diagnosis or research-only
    4. How often is each test used? [determines the quality of overall results]
    5. When were the tests developed?
    6. Why were the tests developed?
    7. Were the tests developed extended from previous virus tests or what was the evolution of the new test
    8. How good are the tests at specifically finding covid-19? What interfere's with good results?
    9. Do the number of cases matter? Specialists who say yes... Specialists who say no


    What are the findings on chloroquine?
    1. Who is for it? what are the counter arugments?
    2. Who is against it? What are the counter arguments or evidence?
    3. How safe has the medicine been? for most people? for everyday use?
    4. Is medicine generally safe? Who says yes? Who says no? Which have best data?
    5. Are anedectal reports from doctors sufficient for the emergency use?

    Disease Expansion:
    1. epidemiologist and mathematicians
    2. viralogists and medical doctors
    3. different model projections. Comments from other scientists on each model
    4. how has the expansion been determined? Are the numbers based on minority reports?
    5. Why does Fauci expect the virus will happen soon in the future? What alternate expectations are there? What history is backing Fauci
    6. Who are experts to look at?

    Field reports
    1. How many doctors and nurses say they have certain COVID-19 patients?
    2. How many doctors and nurses say they have no or few COVID-19 patients?
    3. What is the hospital load concerning patient stays and ICU patients? Is this a heavier load than normal years? Is this a lighter load? Is the lighter load because other types of patients are not going to the hospitals now?
    4. How come mostly famous people were getting COVID-19?
    5. How many personal trustworthy close-friend cases of COVID-19 do you know about (that were positively tested for COVID-19) and are really sick or have died?
    6. Are there special ventilator issues in New York? Do these happen elsewhere?

    Questions on Media trustworthiness

    Discussions on Mass Hysteria -- maybe?

    Possibility of Vaccine
    1. how is need for it determined?
    2. Who expects that a vaccine can be made? Who is not so sure? Why?
    3. What is the deployed effectiveness of the vaccine to keep people from getting ill?

    Wisdom of the total isolation
    1. Who recommends this
    2. Who argues against it
    3. Financial implications
    4. Why have so many countries followed this
    5. What happens in countries that don't do this
    6. How many deaths will result outside of the virus due to this isolation
    a. fear/stress
    b. loss of job --
    c. loss of health insurance and normal medical care
    d. drinking/drug problems reinvigorated
    e. suicides
    7. Should CDC alone make the decision? Pros... Cons...

    WHO
    1. Is the leader of WHO trustworthy and good in medicine?
    2. Who funds the WHO
    3. What special interests are there? Are there ties to China that are concerning?
    4. Has the WHO been making good statements and observations?
    5. Are there people who reasonably reject the information and recommendations of WHO?

    CDC
    1. How well informed is the CDC on epidemiology? What are its credentials or qualifications? Are there voices in the CDC which disagree with CDC policy?
    2. Who contests the CDC view?
    3. Are there special interests driving the CDC?
    4. What good has the reputation of the CDC been in the last 50 years?
    5. Has the CDC responded well to criticism?

  2. #2
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Too many questions. Do your own research and Write a book
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  3. Amen JimL, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    From our Campus Decorum:


    Post Length Considerations
    The maximum post length is 24K characters not including quoted material. Do not use multiple posts to circumvent this restriction. Please keep your points concise and limit the number of major points made in a debate/discussion to 1 or 2 per post max as this encourages discourse. Rebuttal posts get undesirably lengthy from both a writer's and a reader's perspective when there are too many points to address. Additionally, please allow the other person to respond to your post before making additional substantive posts and points directed towards that same person (i.e. back-to-back responses to a single post are not allowed.)

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    tWebber
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    Sorry. I did not intend this thread to be a debate thread itself. The idea was to list topics that people could research from both sides. Maybe it would be useful to say that the results should be provided in separate threads. Also, I was not saying that someone should research multiple areas -- only that the current crisis deserves that people could choose some issue, maybe a small point, from the list and provide back an insight from multiple perspectives.

  6. #5
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    This is like Martin Luther posting his list of 95 debate topics.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  7. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  8. #6
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    This is like Martin Luther posting his list of 95 debate topics.
    oh my. did you count them?

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    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    This disease is not difficult to understand. Main factors are: how contagious is it, what immunity exists, frequency of interactions among the population, [these are variables], rates of severe illness and death among those who contract the disease, depend of the characteristics of the affected population, [fairly stable, unless modified by an effective treatment].

    While there is little natural immunity, and no vaccine, our only defence is physical distance and good hygiene.

    Populations that have adopted those measures early have been able to manage the contagion with fewer resources.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    This disease is not difficult to understand. Main factors are: how contagious is it, what immunity exists, frequency of interactions among the population, [these are variables], rates of severe illness and death among those who contract the disease, depend of the characteristics of the affected population, [fairly stable, unless modified by an effective treatment].

    While there is little natural immunity, and no vaccine, our only defence is physical distance and good hygiene.

    Populations that have adopted those measures early have been able to manage the contagion with fewer resources.
    It seems that you are not concerned about facts or people and are content with living blindly in the current situation. I am looking for people interested in knowledge and thus looking at the debates behind the scenes. If you think this is not difficult to understand, you have a very simplistic view of medicine and epidemiology. Who even needs to study these when they are so easy to understand?
    Last edited by mikewhitney; 04-12-2020 at 08:08 AM.

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    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    It seems that you are not concerned about facts or people and are content with living blindly in the current situation. I am looking for people interested in knowledge and thus looking at the debates behind the scenes. If you think this is not difficult to understand, you have a very simplistic view of medicine and epidemiology. Who even needs to study these when they are so easy to understand?
    I think the Chinese have been using IL6 blockers with some success. Those and other drugs are being trialed.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

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