Yeah - It's just like the flu ...

[carpedm9587]

I have a little hint for you on 'so what', simple one. It's simple and obvious.

Why are there so many more deaths? Many are preventable, but because of fearmongering people who need to go to the hospital don't, and they die. Unnecessarily. Because of fearmongering.

The least you could do is stop parroting all the fearmongering.

Let me see if I have this right. You are proposing that the increase in deaths is due to the fact that people who normally would have called for medical help are now not calling out of fear of catching the coronavirus - so they are dying in their homes instead? Do I have that right?

[demi-conservative]

Let me see if I have this right. You are proposing that the increase in deaths is due to the fact that people who normally would have called for medical help are now not calling out of fear of catching the coronavirus - so they are dying in their homes instead? Do I have that right?

Just stop parroting and think for once.

Doctors in many parts of the United States have reported 40-60 percent drops in admissions for heart attacks and strokes, one cardiologist wrote in the New York Times.

What is the consequence of this drop in admissions?

[oxmixmudd]

I have a little hint for you on 'so what', simple one. It's simple and obvious.



Why are there so many more deaths? Many are preventable, but because of fearmongering people who need to go to the hospital don't, and they die. Unnecessarily. Because of fearmongering.

The least you could do is stop parroting all the fearmongering.

The truth about this virus is scary. What is scary about it is not the raw numbers that get sick enough to die, it's how they die, and the fact that it's a game of Russian roulette. Yeah, maybe you get it and it's no worse than a typical allergy season. Or maybe you spend 21 to 30 days alone, afraid, with 14 to 21 of those last days unable to breathe in a hospital on a machine breathing for you and then you die alone, without family or friends at your side.

That is scary. That scares me. And it ought to scare you. And even more, you ought to care enough not to put someone else through that unnecessarily.

People like you are trying to convince people to pretend this is nothing, no big deal, everybody is overreacting. And those of you sending that message are, in actual fact, killing people who if they just had accurate information about their risk and how to mitigate it would not have otherwise died.

So it goes both ways a bit doesn't it. The only difference is that I'm telling the truth about what the situation is, and you are denying that same truth. And I've got the numbers and the science on my side, and you have conspiracy theories and right wing nuttery on yours.

So - yes we need to make sure Hospitals are safe for people experiencing other ailments. But not by spreading misinformation or conspiracy theories about covid.

[Mountain Man]

It is people dressed in hazmat suits putting dirt on a couple dozen or so coffins in a trench dug for the purpose.

Well, yes, I gathered that much, but without context, I don't know what else to make of it.

[demi-conservative]

The truth about this virus is scary. What is scary about it is not the raw numbers that get sick enough to die, it's how they die, and the fact that it's a game of Russian roulette. Yeah, maybe you get it and it's no worse than a typical allergy season. Or maybe you spend 21 to 30 days alone, afraid, with 14 to 21 of those last days unable to breath in a hospital on a machine breathing for you and then you die alone, without family or friends at your side.

That is scary. That scares me.

Yes, I know you are very scared, and that's why you're making dumb posts like #1. Emotion is overriding your reason, fear mongering is a success.

And it ought to scare you.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. My soul is secure.

People like you are trying to convince people to pretend this is nothing, no big deal, everybody is overreacting.

Crashing the economy is overreacting, yes.

[Mountain Man]

Every day during normal times unclaimed bodies are buried in NYC mass graves.

How that picture is supposed to show anything exceptional is unknown, standard oxmix parroting of anything that is supposed to send us into a panic.

"There are about two dozen bodies a day, five days a week buried on the island, said Jason Kersten, a spokesman for the Department of Correction, which oversees the burials."

So really, the only thing unusual about the picture ox posted is that the workers are wearing hazmat suits as a precaution.

Much ado about nothing?

[oxmixmudd]

Yes, I know you are very scared, and that's why you're making dumb posts like #1. Emotion is overriding your reason, fear mongering is a success.

Emotion is overriding my reason - Dude, I'm not the one pumping conspiracy theories and denying the plain data and facts. The sort of death this thing brings should scare anyone - only fools would not be scared by that - but recognizing it is scary does not mean it controls me. I'm at work right now because this country needs the work I do.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. My soul is secure.



Crashing the economy is overreacting, yes.

Keep the Money flowing OR let 1 to 2 million people die.

Do you really mean to say you prefer door number 2? Do you think that is the position Jesus would take on this?

[carpedm9587]

Just stop parroting and think for once.

Doctors in many parts of the United States have reported 40-60 percent drops in admissions for heart attacks and strokes, one cardiologist wrote in the New York Times.

What is the consequence of this drop in admissions?

So, with a bit of digging, I've found some confirmation of what you are suggesting. However, the speculation (and right now most of this is speculation) is that it is the minor cases that are dropping, taking the total down. Acute cases seem to still be calling for help. And none of this has any numbers attached to it, so there is no way to sort out how many of the 6-fold to 8-fold increase in deaths in NYC is directly due to the coronavirus and how may are indirectly due (i.e., fear of calling for help).

The linked article is to medscape. Although you have to register to access it, there is no pay wall. There are other sources with a similar perspective. This was the best I found.

Thanks, however, for raising my awareness to another aspect of this pandemic I had not considered or known about.

[carpedm9587]

"There are about two dozen bodies a day, five days a week buried on the island, said Jason Kersten, a spokesman for the Department of Correction, which oversees the burials."

So really, the only thing unusual about the picture ox posted is that the workers are wearing hazmat suits as a precaution.

Much ado about nothing?

There are about two dozen a day now. If you stop removing sentences from their context, you will note that earlier in the article it notes that the norm is about 25 per week, which is 3-4 per day.

[oxmixmudd]

So, with a bit of digging, I've found some confirmation of what you are suggesting. However, the speculation (and right now most of this is speculation) is that it is the minor cases that are dropping, taking the total down. Acute cases seem to still be calling for help. And none of this has any numbers attached to it, so there is no way to sort out how many of the 6-fold to 8-fold increase in deaths in NYC is directly due to the coronavirus and how may are indirectly due (i.e., fear of calling for help).

The linked article is to medscape. Although you have to register to access it, there is no pay wall. There are other sources with a similar perspective. This was the best I found.

Thanks, however, for raising my awareness to another aspect of this pandemic I had not considered or known about.

Yeah - there has been some reporting on it on CNN. It is not trivial. A large number of important but not emergency procedures are having to be postponed. That will result in not detecting some dangerous issues that otherwise might have been found. It is not trivial to know how to prioritize those things.

What people should be doing is contacting their doctors with their symptoms and letting their doctors decide if their symptoms warrant that additional risk of going to the ER.

There will be negative reactions to the truth about this virus, and when we realize that a negative reaction like this is taking place and hurting people, we move to mitigate it. That is what we do, this is a crisis, a pandemic. It will be impossible to keep bad things from coming of it. The thing we do is prioritize the problems and move to mitigate those that arise that are at the top of the priority list. This is the nature of a worldwide crisis and pandemic.

[Mountain Man]

The truth about this virus is scary.

...

Or maybe you spend 21 to 30 days alone, afraid...

...

That is scary. That scares me.

Stop living in fear. You're setting a bad example of what a Christian should be.

"Have I not commanded? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discourage, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go."
-Joshua 1:9

[demi-conservative]

Emotion is overriding my reason - Dude, I'm not the one pumping conspiracy theories and denying the plain data and facts

You're scared, I'm not.

Keep the Money flowing OR let 1 to 2 million people die.

False dilemma, with 2 million a garbage number. Garbage data into the model, garbage out.

Do you really mean to say you prefer door number 2? Do you think that is the position Jesus would take on this?

Every year an average of half a million people die of flu alone, globally. We don't shut down the economy to save them, we don't even blink or think much about it. Suppose this virus kills another half million people in addition to flu

[oxmixmudd]

You're scared, I'm not.



False dilemma, with 2 million a garbage number. Garbage data into the model, garbage out.



Every year an average of half a million people die of flu alone, globally. We don't shut down the economy to save them, we don't even blink or think much about it. Suppose this virus kills another half million people in addition to flu

The 1 to 2 million is the US, not the globe. It is not a garbage number either. That is the mortality that is being seen, that is what the numbers show, even factoring in the 50% asymptomatic number from the iceland numbers. Again, you are ignoring the data because you just don't want to believe it is what it is, which is foolish.

Even if eventually the raw data tilts your direction, it will be a hollow victory. You will have simply been a broken watch that happened to be looked at during the 5 minute period it could have been considered more or less 'correct'.

[shunyadragon]

This needed a new thread... why, exactly? I'm pretty sure you've beaten this horse into a fine pink mist by now.

. . . because the Trump disciples remain constantly in denial of the seriousness of the pandemic and failure of the Right wing conservative administrations of the world and Republican governors to respond proactively to the coronaviru pandemics. All response have been after the fact as the Keystone cop panics, ask Prime Minister Boris Johnson (Trumps clone with a British accent) who ended up in the hospital, ater he constantly ridiculed the pandemic.

[oxmixmudd]

. . . because the Trump disciples remain constantly in denial of the seriousness of the pandemic and failure of the Right wing conservative administrations of the world and Republican governors to respond proactively to the coronaviru pandemics. All response have been after the fact as the Keystone cop panics, ask Prime Minister Johnson who ended up in the hospital, ater constantly ridiculed the pandemic.

Not just the hospital, the ICU. I wonder what his story will be when he returns to public life.