The Nations Deceived Rev 20:7-10

[mikewhitney]

[mikewhitney]

A commentary reports Rev 20:7ff as


Michael Wilcock equates the battles with scenes described earlier in Revelation. Leon Morris, in another commentary, holds a similar view. The problem with this view would first be about the parenthetical nature of Rev 20:7-10, where John seems to be filling in understanding for questions that arise after learning about the begining and end of the thousand year reign. A bigger problem would be that Rev 20:7-10 does not describe an actual battle. We only see that the nations encircled the camp of the saints, the beloved city. No bloodshed is described.

The beloved city refers to the New Jerusalem which is synonymous with the saints, the Christians, as indicated in Galatians 5. The prophecy therefore does not refer to a specific location, such as the the land of the current Israel. The Christians exist everywhere so that we cannot expect them to be located in one place. To come to such a reading of the text, the description in Rev 20:7-10 is viewed as an analogy, as a pictorial description of something that we will not see with our eyes, nor on iPhone videos. Much of prophecy is represented through metaphor which is readily found in Isaiah, for example. So, we cannot narrow our understanding of the passage to a physical battle or to scenes we see in Lord of the Rings.

[mikewhitney]

If what I heard is correct, we are close to the Rev 20:7-10 event.

This may be good news (that God's fire will come in judgment against evildoers) or it may mean that we are going to have some very troubled times in America (and probably most other countries). The virus is nothing compared to the trouble we will be facing. God's grace to us all.

If this is fulfilled, I guess we will recognize the fulfillment only after the evildoers are removed. There would be nothing we could do to stop it. If this is a false alarm, sorry. I've just never seen things happening like what we see happening now. The virus panic is nothing compared to what we could see happen.

Satan is the bottom feeder who attracts all the evil into one place and therefore unwittingly aids in their removal, their loss of power. This seems to be what Satan always was meant to do. Then Rev 20:7-10 is Satan's demise -- that his function is completed.

[mikewhitney]

Some questions for anyone who would be curious about Rev 20:7-10...

NOTE: These questions are for reflection, not presented as questions for debate. But discussion is still welcome or remarks related to the questions are fine.
How could much of the world be deceived? Would it be through feeding of wrong ideas about the world or a conspiracy of news spread throughout the world? Maybe a chemical process or electrical process to change their perceptions? Maybe a minor bit of truth is hyped up which appeals to the fears of people.

How would this deception occur? Would it be through psychic or spiritual powers or through a conspiracy evil people?

Would you recognize the deception or would you fall for it? Why would you follow the option you selected here -- between recognizing the deception or falling for it?

Is there a way to prepare against the deception? Would their be early signs of the deception which could be detected? Will Christians recognize the deception as it is developing or only after the destruction of the evildoers?

Neither of the referenced commentaries addressed the nature of the deception that came upon the nations. Those commentaries mainly focused on the great battle they envisioned in Rev 20:7-10, as if Rev 20:7-10 were simply a restatement of the battle imagery of the previous chapters.

[mikewhitney]

I have come to the realization that the majority of Christians do not have to recognize the deception described in Revelation 20. A corollary to this concept is that the Christians are not given direct signs about the nature of this deception -- to recognize that it is happening. Another corollary is that Christians do not need to take protective action in response to the deception.
Additional extention of ideas ... Christians are not overly harmed by the deceptions. There is no escape from the effects on society or the church. This means we will be suffering along with the non-Christians.

The present worldwide coordinated reaction to the covid fiasco presents to us the start of the finish of the deception. Mind you, I'm not saying that people are not getting sick. (Don't you love double negatives?) However, the ability to identify the cause of sickness is not scientifically established ... and not established to one cause. Also, many people have reported that the worldwide effect of the disease(s) is at typical flu levels -- not any level justifying the scary designation of pandemic. We are being told to kill our economies, our entertainment, our education, and our futures for this event that might be said to be affecting 0.1 percent of the US population (and much smaller percent of the world population) -- whereas as Pandemic should not be used unless there is a threat on, for example, 5% of the world dying (in populations exposed to such a theoretical disease). The numbers are smaller when you consider that the 300k or so people said to die from covid -- only about 6 % were from that alone -- maybe up to 20% of the 300k whose comorbidities were greatly enhanced by this covid thing.

I think the ultimate thing that will happen is that we will go through a decade of starvation, fires, deaths, floods, tyranny and other horrific things before the Lord removes the evildoers in accord with Rev 20:7-10. I sort of include in this the possibility that wildlife will be unable to replenish itself beyond 2026 (I have not heard the details of this sort of analysis but it is an interesting time frame.) It seems the extent of deceit and problems is so extensive that the populations of the world could not rise up to stop this.

After the evildoers are removed from the world (per Rev 20:7-10), the Christians will then likely recognize that God has acted. Is this not similar to the first century when Christ came? A few people were waiting for the Messiah in light of prophecy but most of Jerusalem and the diaspora did not recognize the times. However, those who came to Christ then could understand the prophecies in light of the revelation of Christ.

(I could be off in my analysis. I am just describing how things could transpire, even in a short time. Like I said, this is not something that has to be recognized beforehand -- otherwise we would already be alert to the deceptions.)

[mikewhitney]

If prophecy is getting fulfilled, would people fail to recognize it until it is completed?

This seemed to be the case with the OT prophecies of the Messiah. They had the timing from Daniel, but how much attention was paid to that? There probably was sufficient expectation he would come but most were not convinced enough by prophecy to drive them to the Messiah. Mostly, the people who started to recognize Jesus as the Messiah -- they were the ones who began to recognize the fulfillment of prophecy. Of course they had to start with some acceptance of the reports they were hearing about Jesus and the gospel. So, some initial insight into the situation was needed before they began to consider the details of prophecy being fulfilled.

I'm not saying that there is a problem or sin for Christians who do not see how prophecies may be fulfilled now. I am just wondering if people would recognize things as they are happening.

[mikewhitney]

I new there has been much deception in America for umpteen years. I did not see how the whole world could be deceived until we had the covid fiasco. And it turned out a leading cause of death for world leaders was the denial of a covid pandemic or from not requiring lockdowns and shots.

I am looking at doing some videos showing that Revelation is primarily about vindication of those suffering in the first-century due to holding to the gospel of Christ. Also in Revelation, John shares about the wrath of God against those who were denying Jesus as the Messiah. The premil view then seems to miss all the indicators showing Revelation essentially being constrained to the first-century, except for most of Revelation 20, which speaks parenthetical to the normal flow from Rev 19 to Rev 21. The parenthetical section is Rev 20:7-15 with the apparent purpose of explaining the awakening of the unrighteous ones (especially of Judea), who personally rejected Christ -- who heard his words but still rejected him (John 5:25-29). John adds a bit more to the description. As seen in Dan 12:1-3, the continuity existed from the time of trouble until the resurrections. The minor detail (which can be explained from John 5:25-29) is that the resurrection of the unrighteous was delayed until after the 1000 year (or very long) period.