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Lab Leak: The conspiracy theory is shaping up to look like real possibility

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    more ad hom
    The Daily Fail promotes barely-there bikini pics on its front page. You're the owner of a Christian-run site, defending your decision to post from there despite having said yourself that the information is widely available elsewhere.
    You can easily find the same material elsewhere.

    Then do so.

    That was my source.
    That would be so much more convincing if you'd left a link.
    WHO continues to advise against the application of travel or trade restrictions to countries experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks.

    And avoided cropping it immediately before you were contradicted.
    In general, evidence shows that restricting the movement of people and goods during public health emergencies is ineffective in most situations and may divert resources from other interventions. Furthermore, restrictions may interrupt needed aid and technical support, may disrupt businesses, and may have negative social and economic effects on the affected countries. However, in certain circumstances, measures that restrict the movement of people may prove temporarily useful, such as in settings with few international connections and limited response capacities.

    I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt, that you actually didn't read any further. Hell, it's hard to get you to read an entire o/p. There's no way to avoid noting the shifted goalposts.
    Do you know that they are still saying we never should have stopped international travel from China?

    No, they didn't.
    Travel measures that significantly interfere with international traffic may only be justified at the beginning of an outbreak, as they may allow countries to gain time, even if only a few days, to rapidly implement effective preparedness measures. Such restrictions must be based on a careful risk assessment, be proportionate to the public health risk, be short in duration, and be reconsidered regularly as the situation evolves.

    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    again, read your own source:
    And now that everyone is saying wearing a mask is useful they are still advising against wearing them.

    v.
    If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.

    v.
    If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.
    Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
    Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
    If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

    There's a pattern in the cropping here, but I'm not objecting to the misrepresentations so much as the conspiracy theories.
    It's like they want the pandemic to get worse. Job security?

    There's no missing the fact these attacks on the WHO and Fauci et al. are directly linked to their contradictions of the president, a guy who's mooted the hyperbole of claiming a man would lie about the weather.

    If you really want to make the pandemic get worse, there's no better strategy than attacking the front line defenders.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
      The Daily Fail promotes barely-there bikini pics on its front page. You're the owner of a Christian-run site, defending your decision to post from there despite having said yourself that the information is widely available elsewhere.
      Personally, if I were you, I'd be far more concerned about how that fish wrapper you venerate has degenerated down to a level that it has become increasingly difficult to distinguish from the National Enquirer (they're just one Bigfoot-is-the-father-of-my-child story away).

      It's the whole plank in the eye thing.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Personally, if I were you ...
        You'd be thinking this thread has seen enough trolling from the moderation team.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
          The Daily Fail promotes barely-there bikini pics on its front page. You're the owner of a Christian-run site, defending your decision to post from there despite having said yourself that the information is widely available elsewhere.
          You can easily find the same material elsewhere.

          Then do so.



          That would be so much more convincing if you'd left a link.
          WHO continues to advise against the application of travel or trade restrictions to countries experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks.

          And avoided cropping it immediately before you were contradicted.
          In general, evidence shows that restricting the movement of people and goods during public health emergencies is ineffective in most situations and may divert resources from other interventions. Furthermore, restrictions may interrupt needed aid and technical support, may disrupt businesses, and may have negative social and economic effects on the affected countries. However, in certain circumstances, measures that restrict the movement of people may prove temporarily useful, such as in settings with few international connections and limited response capacities.

          I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt, that you actually didn't read any further. Hell, it's hard to get you to read an entire o/p. There's no way to avoid noting the shifted goalposts.
          Do you know that they are still saying we never should have stopped international travel from China?

          No, they didn't.
          Travel measures that significantly interfere with international traffic may only be justified at the beginning of an outbreak, as they may allow countries to gain time, even if only a few days, to rapidly implement effective preparedness measures. Such restrictions must be based on a careful risk assessment, be proportionate to the public health risk, be short in duration, and be reconsidered regularly as the situation evolves.


          And now that everyone is saying wearing a mask is useful they are still advising against wearing them.

          v.
          If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.

          v.
          If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.
          Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
          Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
          If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

          There's a pattern in the cropping here, but I'm not objecting to the misrepresentations so much as the conspiracy theories.
          It's like they want the pandemic to get worse. Job security?

          There's no missing the fact these attacks on the WHO and Fauci et al. are directly linked to their contradictions of the president, a guy who's mooted the hyperbole of claiming a man would lie about the weather.

          If you really want to make the pandemic get worse, there's no better strategy than attacking the front line defenders.
          Well said. The conservative media is against any person with expertise that contradicts the President. They exist to feed Trump's ego, And Trump's ego can not abide being told his 'gut' is wrong. Especially by someone whose opinion garners respect over and above Trump by the mere fact they are qualified experts and men of integrity. Fauci is just such a person.
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
            Like "Shoo, fly," maybe?



            Bold plan. Let's make it happen.

            Cow Poke is not able to moderate his own behavior, and believes it's acceptable for a moderator to wreck serious discussions. Because this is a long-standing issue, and because the board software doesn't allow him to be placed on the quick-scrolling list, where he belongs, I'm once again asking Cow Poke to resign from staff.

            Where he can still attempt to wreck discussions, but we can ignore it.
            You seem to be on one of your being a complete and utter jerk trips again. Please stop. If I were to ask anyone to leave at this point it would be you. Again, please stop.
            Last edited by Sparko; 05-15-2020, 10:21 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
              WHO continues to advise against the application of travel or trade restrictions to countries experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks.

              And avoided cropping it immediately before you were contradicted.
              In general, evidence shows that restricting the movement of people and goods during public health emergencies is ineffective in most situations and may divert resources from other interventions. Furthermore, restrictions may interrupt needed aid and technical support, may disrupt businesses, and may have negative social and economic effects on the affected countries. However, in certain circumstances, measures that restrict the movement of people may prove temporarily useful, such as in settings with few international connections and limited response capacities.
              Bolding mine. They are still against what the US and other countries did by shutting down all flights from China. Any reading of their release shows that they are advising against any country shutting down international travel.



              I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt, that you actually didn't read any further. Hell, it's hard to get you to read an entire o/p. There's no way to avoid noting the shifted goalposts.
              Do you know that they are still saying we never should have stopped international travel from China?

              No, they didn't.
              Yuh, they did.

              Travel measures that significantly interfere with international traffic may only be justified at the beginning of an outbreak, as they may allow countries to gain time, even if only a few days, to rapidly implement effective preparedness measures. Such restrictions must be based on a careful risk assessment, be proportionate to the public health risk, be short in duration, and be reconsidered regularly as the situation evolves.
              short in duration. LOL.



              And now that everyone is saying wearing a mask is useful they are still advising against wearing them.

              v.
              If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.

              v.
              If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.
              Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
              Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
              If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

              There's a pattern in the cropping here, but I'm not objecting to the misrepresentations so much as the conspiracy theories.
              Again, how do you know if you are healthy, jerk? They are advising against people wearing masks unless they are sick. But the current advice is to wear a mask always in public, by everyone, including "healthy" people because you could be asymptomatic. If you followed the WHO's advice the virus would spread faster because asymptomatic people would be going around spreading it.

              Comment


              • Austrian study seems to imply it was mad-made as the best and most likely explanation.

                Remember, I'm just the messenger

                From how I understood it, they're saying the closest possibility out of all species was pangolin to human, but that even this doesn't present the necessary evidence to demonstrate that that happened. But I'm an idiot on the subject, so maybe those with more knowledge about this can parse it and tell me where I'm wrong.

                Comment




                • Over a year later and just now the MSM is waking up to the possibility that COVID probably escaped from a lab.

                  told-you-so-meter1.jpg

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post


                    Over a year later and just now the MSM is waking up to the possibility that COVID probably escaped from a lab.

                    told-you-so-meter1.jpg
                    But only after mocking it, calling it "debunked" and "misinformation" while smearing those who brought up the possibility -- ALL WITHOUT EVER FIRST INVESTIGATING A SINGLE THING

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      But only after mocking it, calling it "debunked" and "misinformation" while smearing those who brought up the possibility -- ALL WITHOUT EVER FIRST INVESTIGATING A SINGLE THING
                      Vox has been stealth-editing the articles where they mocked and denied the idea, to try to 1984 their stories. No actual indication that they edited them or statement of what was edited, just secret editing that some keen-eyed observers found when going back.
                      https://techstartups.com/2021/05/24/...igin-covid-19/

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post


                        Over a year later and just now the MSM is waking up to the possibility that COVID probably escaped from a lab.

                        told-you-so-meter1.jpg
                        And here I was told I was "detached from reality" for thinking it was still a good possibility.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post


                          Over a year later and just now the MSM is waking up to the possibility that COVID probably escaped from a lab.
                          Over a year ago, I was saying the same thing, in excruciating detail.

                          Fringe media is still spinning out conspiracy theories, up to and including bioweapons cooked up at the behest of the Chinese military, but the more sober WIV escape theories have been building since the beginning, as you'd know if you were reading mainstream sources, instead of reading about mainstream sources. These unending attacks on the MSM are woefully lacking in consideration of their consequences. Outside the MSM, for all its flaws, there's only fringe media which has all of the flaws of the MSM, scaled up and magnified. Choosing fringe media because of flaws in the MSM is jaw-droppingly poor judgment.

                          Most of what I was investigating a year ago, posted in this thread, came from mainstream media, though I went a lot deeper checking things out. I can't believe how many hours I spent poring over that genome and its closest cousin: RaTG13.

                          Timeline: How the Wuhan lab-leak theory suddenly became credible
                          .
                          The source of the coronavirus that has left more than 3 million people dead around the world remains a mystery. But in recent months the idea that it emerged from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) — once dismissed as a ridiculous conspiracy theory — has gained new credence.

                          The timeline is by Glenn Kessler, WaPo's principal fact checker. The reporting has been there all along. The difference now is in how credible the theory has become.

                          Earlier reporting was heavily hedged against accusing the WIV outright. That's not something you want to get wrong, if you've got a reputation, and reporters in China, to protect — the Chinese aren't shy about harassing and kicking reporters out of the country, and those aren't eyes you want blinded. And there are other considerations.

                          Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                          A suggestion that the virus was created at WIV is a suggestion that WIV is responsible for what will likely be millions of deaths before it's contained and what is already trillions in damages worldwide. That's serious enough that no one should be arriving at conclusions that aren't supported by overwhelming evidence.
                          But in over a year since I first started at examining the genomes closely, nothing closer to n-Cov-2 than RaTG13 has been found, a virus with a known ability to kill humans at its point of collection, a virus brought back to the WIV by Zhengli Shi, director of the Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, and a virus with a lab history that's conspicuously unavailable.

                          And speaking of unavailable ...
                          .
                          March 28: “60 Minutes” airs report on lingering questions about the origins of the coronavirus, featuring Metzl and former deputy national security adviser Matt Pottinger. “There was a direct order from Beijing to destroy all viral samples -- and they didn’t volunteer to share the genetic sequences,” Pottinger says, quoting from declassified intelligence information.

                          We're never going to see those WIV lab records. They'll murder the staff first.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            But only after mocking it, calling it "debunked" and "misinformation" while smearing those who brought up the possibility -- ALL WITHOUT EVER FIRST INVESTIGATING A SINGLE THING
                            Don't worry, with an investigation currently in the capable hands of the Chinese backed World Health Organization, I'm sure we will quickly learn the truth. Even the White House is so confident that they have announced that there is no need for an intendent investigation by the United States.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

                              Over a year ago, I was saying the same thing, in excruciating detail.

                              Fringe media is still spinning out conspiracy theories, up to and including bioweapons cooked up at the behest of the Chinese military, but the more sober WIV escape theories have been building since the beginning, as you'd know if you were reading mainstream sources, instead of reading about mainstream sources. These unending attacks on the MSM are woefully lacking in consideration of their consequences. Outside the MSM, for all its flaws, there's only fringe media which has all of the flaws of the MSM, scaled up and magnified. Choosing fringe media because of flaws in the MSM is jaw-droppingly poor judgment.

                              Most of what I was investigating a year ago, posted in this thread, came from mainstream media, though I went a lot deeper checking things out. I can't believe how many hours I spent poring over that genome and its closest cousin: RaTG13.

                              Timeline: How the Wuhan lab-leak theory suddenly became credible
                              .
                              The source of the coronavirus that has left more than 3 million people dead around the world remains a mystery. But in recent months the idea that it emerged from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) — once dismissed as a ridiculous conspiracy theory — has gained new credence.

                              The timeline is by Glenn Kessler, WaPo's principal fact checker. The reporting has been there all along. The difference now is in how credible the theory has become.

                              Earlier reporting was heavily hedged against accusing the WIV outright. That's not something you want to get wrong, if you've got a reputation, and reporters in China, to protect — the Chinese aren't shy about harassing and kicking reporters out of the country, and those aren't eyes you want blinded. And there are other considerations.



                              But in over a year since I first started at examining the genomes closely, nothing closer to n-Cov-2 than RaTG13 has been found, a virus with a known ability to kill humans at its point of collection, a virus brought back to the WIV by Zhengli Shi, director of the Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, and a virus with a lab history that's conspicuously unavailable.

                              And speaking of unavailable ...
                              .
                              March 28: “60 Minutes” airs report on lingering questions about the origins of the coronavirus, featuring Metzl and former deputy national security adviser Matt Pottinger. “There was a direct order from Beijing to destroy all viral samples -- and they didn’t volunteer to share the genetic sequences,” Pottinger says, quoting from declassified intelligence information.

                              We're never going to see those WIV lab records. They'll murder the staff first.
                              Yup you were one of the ones who took it seriously way back then. Even Starlight did. If I recall, the biggest deniers here were Shunya and maybe Ox (don't feel like digging back through the thread, so I I got it wrong I apologize)

                              Yeah I think the WaPo was one of the few MSM who took it seriously all along.

                              But much of the MSM just rejected the idea as crazy because Trump mentioned it.


                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

                                Over a year ago, I was saying the same thing, in excruciating detail.

                                Fringe media is still spinning out conspiracy theories, up to and including bioweapons cooked up at the behest of the Chinese military, but the more sober WIV escape theories have been building since the beginning, as you'd know if you were reading mainstream sources, instead of reading about mainstream sources. These unending attacks on the MSM are woefully lacking in consideration of their consequences. Outside the MSM, for all its flaws, there's only fringe media which has all of the flaws of the MSM, scaled up and magnified. Choosing fringe media because of flaws in the MSM is jaw-droppingly poor judgment.

                                Most of what I was investigating a year ago, posted in this thread, came from mainstream media, though I went a lot deeper checking things out. I can't believe how many hours I spent poring over that genome and its closest cousin: RaTG13.

                                Timeline: How the Wuhan lab-leak theory suddenly became credible
                                .
                                The source of the coronavirus that has left more than 3 million people dead around the world remains a mystery. But in recent months the idea that it emerged from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) — once dismissed as a ridiculous conspiracy theory — has gained new credence.




                                The timeline is by Glenn Kessler, WaPo's principal fact checker. The reporting has been there all along. The difference now is in how credible the theory has become.

                                Earlier reporting was heavily hedged against accusing the WIV outright. That's not something you want to get wrong, if you've got a reputation, and reporters in China, to protect — the Chinese aren't shy about harassing and kicking reporters out of the country, and those aren't eyes you want blinded. And there are other considerations.



                                But in over a year since I first started at examining the genomes closely, nothing closer to n-Cov-2 than RaTG13 has been found, a virus with a known ability to kill humans at its point of collection, a virus brought back to the WIV by Zhengli Shi, director of the Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, and a virus with a lab history that's conspicuously unavailable.

                                And speaking of unavailable ...
                                .
                                March 28: “60 Minutes” airs report on lingering questions about the origins of the coronavirus, featuring Metzl and former deputy national security adviser Matt Pottinger. “There was a direct order from Beijing to destroy all viral samples -- and they didn’t volunteer to share the genetic sequences,” Pottinger says, quoting from declassified intelligence information.




                                We're never going to see those WIV lab records. They'll murder the staff first.
                                The theory was first introduced, "building" and being sustained by rightwing sources, both fringe (it was a bioweapon) and not so fringe (it was an accident). It was mainly leftwing sources and MSM shunning and censoring the story as "debunked."

                                The leftwing MSM only started to recently entertain the possibility after Robert R. Redfield and Sunjay Gupta recently pushed the theory on national TV.

                                Comment

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