Lab Leak: The conspiracy theory is shaping up to look like real possibility

[rogue06]

It's certainly strange that liberals are more upset about Trump possibly being right then they are about China's lack of candor that led to thousands of deaths around the world.

Considering how they were far more upset with Trump for calling it the Chinese or Wuhan virus than they ever were with all the flagrant and blatant lying and concealing of information the Chicom's were doing, why would it become strange now?

[rogue06]

Yesterday, one of the View Shrews, Joy Behar, after ranting about how Trump picked on the poor widdle Chicoms, frumbled that Trump made a "lucky guess" about where the virus came from. Keep in mind this is the show where Whoopi Goldberg denied that the Chinese government was accusing the U.S. military of having spread Covid in Wuhan^[1]




1. apparently China has never stopped pushing this. Yesterday they announced that any investigation into China is over and it is time to start investigating "other countries" as the possible source of their plague.

From the WaPo 10 hours ago

Source: As U.S. calls for focus on covid origins, China repeats speculation about U.S. military base

China reacted angrily to the Biden administration’s calls for a harder investigation into the origins of the coronavirus pandemic, by accusing the United States of hypocrisy and suggesting it needed to open its own biological laboratories to international inspection.

Speaking at a media briefing in Beijing, Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Zhao Lijian said that President Biden’s call for more scrutiny of the still-disputed origins of coronavirus was politically motivated and showed that the United States "does not care about facts and truth, nor is it interested in serious scientific origin tracing."

Zhao, one of the country’s most notoriously hawkish diplomats, referenced a U.S. military location that has been baselessly linked to the coronavirus outbreak by Chinese media.

Describing Fort Detrick in Frederick, Md., as "full of suspicion," Zhao said the United States needed to open it up to international scrutiny. "There are more than 200 U.S. biological laboratories scattered around the world. How many secrets are there?" he said.



Source

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[Juvenal]

What's hilarious is that the media had no problem with calling it the Chinese virus until President Trump said it, and then it suddenly became racist.

On the contrary, people ceased calling it the Chinese virus or the Wuhan virus as soon as they were made aware it could lead to discrimination, threats, and violence against Asian Americans.

With notable exceptions.

[Mountain Man]

On the contrary, people ceased calling it the Chinese virus or the Wuhan virus as soon as they were made aware it could lead to discrimination, threats, and violence against Asian Americans.

Which just happened to be right around the time that Trump said it.

[Juvenal]

Which just happened to be right around the time that Trump said it.

As you wish to dwell on this, it was also right around the time videos of Chinese-American citizens being attacked in the streets began to surface, a phenomena which continues today, despite the fact Trump's reckless repetitions have been effectively silenced.

This time, the blame is elsewhere.

[oxmixmudd]

The information about the scientists at the lab getting sick before the Covid 19 outbreak. That is about it though, and there certainly was evidence* that a lab leak was possible, it just wasn't conclusive. In fact oxmixmudd's post shows he either doesn't remember what he said very well, or he's gaslighting.







Does that look like he was fine with the idea of a lab escape to you? He immediately tried to make it seem as if the "lab escape" hypothesis was entirely Trump inspired and driven by those devoted to Trump. He also tries to bring in derogatory verbiage towards people of Asian descent" as another reason for his level of backlash. I'm not finding anything in this thread so far that is even remotely close to "derogatory verbiage towards people of Asian descent".

Apparently he doesn't seem to realize that the level of fervor to which he was opposing the mere possibility** of a lab escape was motivated by how own political bias. In fact he had to twist my word into a caricature of what they were in order to attack me. All while projecting that onto me and playing the victim.

*The closest thing to Covid 19 genetically was a virus that was in the lab, and they couldn't find anything near as close in the wild.

**Neither one of said it was certain, or that it was an intentionally manufactured virus. We just said that Fauci was a bit too dismissive of other possibilities that could have involved the lab. Turns out we were right that it was dismissed too easily. He also dishonestly tried to imply that I thought the Chinese were trying to "foist a deadly virus onto the world". I nowhere stated anything like that, and even had to explicitly call out this absurd notion. Yet he still continued his attacks on me, and his attempt to derail the discussion into yet another anti-Trump tirade. Apparently his anger and unconscious bias trumped his reading comprehension earlier in the thread.

Edit. It took him quite a while to even admit that it was a possibility that there was an escape from the lab due to an accident. Only after Starlight and Juvenal mentioned they thought it was likely did he soften up to the idea.

Your example shows I remember exactly what I said. It also shows you are not understanding what I said, be it due to malice or a lack of careful consideration of my words.

Notice I emphasized evidence and the danger of world power confrontation over a hunch. Evidence is not rumor, and it is not some single person's claim to have seen something. Especially when the media machines harping it have one goal - to shore up and support a rogue president.

That VALIDATED report of sickened Wuhan researchers with covid like symptoms in November is a game changer. It still doesn't prove a lab origin, but it does make a strong case for it being a real possibility and shifts the balance of the evidence to the point it is a possibility that needs to be taken seriously.

[oxmixmudd]

Yes, that seems to be the favorite rationalization of people who find out that something they discounted turns out to be true.

Yes, it is a favorite saying of mine, and because it is so appropriate for these conversations. Some rumors are based on facts, but most are either without real foundation or massively exaggerated. And the only way to sift through them is to rely on accurate and verifiable evidence.

Unfortunately, the psychology of belief and confirmation bias is such that typically only one in 10 such rumors need to turn out to be true in order for a person prone to accept them to be convinced they are ALL 'really' true.

[rogue06]

On the contrary, people ceased calling it the Chinese virus or the Wuhan virus as soon as they were made aware it could lead to discrimination, threats, and violence against Asian Americans.

With notable exceptions.

Was one of those notable exceptions the Asian press corp?

A LexisNexis search of English-language news stories found that it was still being called things like the "Chinese virus" and the "Wuhan virus" at times.

I guess Asians didn't think it was all that racist.

[Juvenal]

A few days ago. It dealt with the researchers at the lab who had [Covid] back in November 2019.

That's the suspicion going off the symptoms, which are also consistent with seasonal flus. Hospitalization for flu is fairly rare, and a cluster of cases being hospitalized is even more suspicious. If we had virus samples from their hospitalizations, however, that would be ...

The so-called Smoking Gun.

I was wondering why Kessler's timeline didn't mention the WSJ piece, so I checked. His timeline shows the story was broken in The Australian, on March 22, 2021: China Covid researchers ‘in first cluster’ before showing up in the WSJ, May 23, 2021: Intelligence on Sick Staff at Wuhan Lab Fuels Debate on Covid-19 Origin two months later, so only the Australian was credited.

[Juvenal]

Was one of those notable exceptions the Asian press corp?

A LexisNexis search of English-language news stories found that it was still being called things like the "Chinese virus" and the "Wuhan virus" at times.

I guess Asians didn't think it was all that racist.

Asians aren't at risk for being from Asia in Asia.

[rogue06]

Asians aren't at risk for being from Asia in Asia.

But wouldn't anyone from China traveling outside the country in Asia be at risk if it was a racist term?

[Mountain Man]

Yes, it is a favorite saying of mine, and because it is so appropriate for these conversations. Some rumors are based on facts, but most are either without real foundation or massively exaggerated. And the only way to sift through them is to rely on accurate and verifiable evidence.

Unfortunately, the psychology of belief and confirmation bias is such that typically only one in 10 such rumors need to turn out to be true in order for a person prone to accept them to be convinced they are ALL 'really' true.

I guess you're going with the Fredo Cuomo rationalization that President Trump was wrong before he was right.

[Mountain Man]

As you wish to dwell on this, it was also right around the time videos of Chinese-American citizens being attacked in the streets began to surface, a phenomena which continues today, despite the fact Trump's reckless repetitions have been effectively silenced.

This time, the blame is elsewhere.

I notice the one article you linked to, the Yale one, seems to greatly exaggerate the extent to which Asians were supposedly stigmatized, promoting the absurd notion of "microaggressions" which is a trope used by the left to vilify innocent people.

[Sparko]

From the WaPo 10 hours ago

Source: As U.S. calls for focus on covid origins, China repeats speculation about U.S. military base

China reacted angrily to the Biden administration’s calls for a harder investigation into the origins of the coronavirus pandemic, by accusing the United States of hypocrisy and suggesting it needed to open its own biological laboratories to international inspection.

Speaking at a media briefing in Beijing, Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Zhao Lijian said that President Biden’s call for more scrutiny of the still-disputed origins of coronavirus was politically motivated and showed that the United States "does not care about facts and truth, nor is it interested in serious scientific origin tracing."

Zhao, one of the country’s most notoriously hawkish diplomats, referenced a U.S. military location that has been baselessly linked to the coronavirus outbreak by Chinese media.

Describing Fort Detrick in Frederick, Md., as "full of suspicion," Zhao said the United States needed to open it up to international scrutiny. "There are more than 200 U.S. biological laboratories scattered around the world. How many secrets are there?" he said.



Source

© Copyright Original Source

[*Article continues at link above*]

From my years of experience on internet forums, one of the first reactions of the guilty is to try to point the finger back at whoever exposed them in the first place and play the "I know you are but what am I?" deflection game.

If we ARE doing such experiments, we are good enough not to release them into the public and cause a pandemic, China.

[Gondwanaland]

On the contrary, people ceased calling it the Chinese virus or the Wuhan virus as soon as they were made aware it could lead to discrimination, threats, and violence against Asian Americans.

With notable exceptions.

Lyme's Disease
Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever
Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS)
Ebola Virus
Zika Virus
West Nile Virus
Hendra Virus
Spanish Flu (named after the location that first publicized its existence - notably it likely came from China originally, thru the US, and out to Europe after)

All named for locations where they originated (or were recognized, in the case of the last one).

Nothing wrong with naming a virus for its geographic origins.