Vegetarianism: A moral imparitive?

[anthrogirl]

What do you think about vegetarianism/veganism? It seems to me that humans are perfectly capable of surviving without the consumption of animal flesh. Also, given the obvious cruelty of factory farming, the environmental impact, and the noteworthy deliterious effects on human health, it seems like a no-brainer...

...any ideas?

anthrogirl

[Chuck Lee]

Although humans are capable of surviving without meat, I think "perfectly capable" overstates things. A dietary supplement is required to take the place of meat. Such supplements would have to be produced in sufficient quantities, to begin with.

Then of course there's the problem that various meats taste really good. Yum, turkey...
Overcoming the taste factor would be awfully difficult.

The problems you point out in the meat industry could be dealt with in a way short of banning consumption of meat.

[Da Lone-Warrior]

I think there is a good reason to try and reduce the amount of meat consumption.

Clearly, factory-farming, while making meat cheaper, also creates a large number of negative externalities for both the environment and our consciences wrt the treatment of animals and their being forced fed other animal flesh, causing the equivalent of mad-cow's disease.

But that is a far cry from saying that all eating of meat is wrong. Such can be left to people's consciences, but the real need is collective action to make large-scale meat production internalize the negative externalities it produces and perhaps to then subsidize small-scale production of meat so that meat-eaters will not have to as drastically change their eating-habits(this reduces the political opposition to the changes proposed.).

dlw

[anthrogirl]

A dietary supplement is required to take the place of meat. Such supplements would have to be produced in sufficient quantities, to begin with.

supplement? what kind of supplement? I spent nearly four years as a vegan (and I rode my bicycle a minimum of 20 miles/day). I stopped because I love cheeses--but I am very careful about where they come from (ie no animal rennet). I've been a vegetarian for over 10 years...and I haven't been sick in 2 yrs (no colds, flu, etc.). It's true that one must pay attention to what they eat, but I think this is true for everyone, regardless of diet. What do you think?

Then of course there's the problem that various meats taste really good. Yum, turkey...
Overcoming the taste factor would be awfully difficult.

Okay...to each their own

The problems you point out in the meat industry could be dealt with in a way short of banning consumption of meat.

agreed. I would be satisfied with a reform in the industry. I spent three years researching transmissable spongeform encephalopathy (TSE), or "mad cow disease". The situation is far more serious than most folks realize. Not to mention the myriad of other troubles: parasites, bacteria etc.

cheers!
anthrogirl

[James]

As soon as someone genetically engineers plants to produce baby-back ribs, I'll become a vegetarian.

[anthrogirl]

[Socrates]

What do you think about vegetarianism/veganism? It seems to me that humans are perfectly capable of surviving without the consumption of animal flesh. Also, given the obvious cruelty of factory farming, the environmental impact, and the noteworthy deliterious effects on human health, it seems like a no-brainer...

Both humans and animals were created vegetarian (Genesis 1:29-30). But after the Fall, some animals became carnivorous (see Did God create carnivory? for some ideas), while God gave humans permission to eat meat after the Flood, as he had previously "given the green plants for food'. This permission has never been revoked, and Jesus ate the Passover lamb and even ate fish after His resurrection.

[Chuck Lee]

It's true that one must pay attention to what they eat, but I think this is true for everyone, regardless of diet. What do you think?

We do need proteins in our diet. There are other sources of proteins besides meat, but it does require paying attention. Not everyone wants to pay that much attention to a diet. It's hard enough for many just to remember to get some Vitamin C now and then...

[Da Lone-Warrior]

If we tax factory-produced meats to force them to take into account the amount of pollutants they produce as byproducts and to treat their animals better, taxing the feeding them of animal by-products then the price of meat will rise and the quantity of it demanded will fall.

This will help small-farmers who treat their animals better on the whole.

dlw

[James]

Both humans and animals were created vegetarian (Genesis 1:29-30). But after the Fall, some animals became carnivorous (see Did God create carnivory? for some ideas), while God gave humans permission to eat meat after the Flood, as he had previously "given the green plants for food'. This permission has never been revoked, and Jesus ate the Passover lamb and even ate fish after His resurrection.

Right, because T. Rex obviously was created with those razor-sharp teeth in order to slice through all that thick flora in Eden.

[Alien]

What do you think about vegetarianism/veganism? It seems to me that humans are perfectly capable of surviving without the consumption of animal flesh. Also, given the obvious cruelty of factory farming, the environmental impact, and the noteworthy deliterious effects on human health, it seems like a no-brainer...

...any ideas?

anthrogirl

No argument from me, I've been a vegetarian for over ten years (I do eat cheese, free range eggs and the "lower" forms of seafood like mussels that I can't imagine have any consciousness). It's good to meet a fellow veggie/vegan anthro!



The fact is that our society is remarkably inconsistent regarding animals. People happily munch down on cows, sheep, pigs etc, yet consider societies that eat dogs to be barbaric and cruel. Dogs are considered as friends and companions that have feelings and a limited number of rights. Meat animals are seen as faceless meals on legs. I love dogs, own three, and go to great lengths to ensure their happiness and well being. I can't bring myself to offer anything different to other animals that share the same ability to feel and suffer. I'm funny that way.

Not that it will make any difference to anyone, but the supplement and taste arguments don't stand up imo. As soon as the demand became great enough, the market would supply these things. You'd be able to buy tofu and other meat substitutes already prepared with the required nutrients. They might even find some way to make tofu taste of something. And imagine what vegetarian meals would be like once the world's top chefs started competing to produce delicious dishes without meat.

I'm actually not that concerned about the health aspect ... I'd happily eat meat if they found some way to produce it without breeding and killing animals (by cell division in vitro, or something, I don't know). One can dream ....

[Socrates]

Right, because T. Rex obviously was created with those razor-sharp teeth in order to slice through all that thick flora in Eden.

Why not? The sharp teeth and powerful jaws of the pacu are for eating tough plant matter, while the piranha is a degenerate version of this. And the skull below, with the sharp teeth is ... a fruit bat!

It would help if you read the link I provided before spouting off like that in future.

[Socrates]

As soon as someone genetically engineers plants to produce baby-back ribs, I'll become a vegetarian.

[Twilly Spree]

I need to not read these discussions after eating chicken for dinner. Such a weak stomach has I.

I unfortunately am a very picky eater otherwise I believe I would be mostly vegetarian. Except for chicken, goodness do I love chicken. I do eat very little meat though, I will give myself that. I'm currently a particpator in the non-atkins diet aka eat all carbs (mmm noodles).

[BeHereNow]

What do you think about vegetarianism/veganism? It seems to me that humans are perfectly capable of surviving without the consumption of animal flesh. Also, given the obvious cruelty of factory farming, the environmental impact, and the noteworthy deliterious effects on human health, it seems like a no-brainer...

...any ideas?

anthrogirl

Three of my best friends back home are vegan. After cross-examining them several times, I've come to the conclusion that people eat meat out of habit and visceral enjoyment. They love it so much that they construct ridiculous excuses to continue eating it.

I still eat meat, but I also admit it's because I'm weak. When my conscience is more aligned, I will be vegan. As Ram Dass said, an individual who is at peace should be able to get by on fruit and nuts. I've done that for weeks at a time actually, and I was fine. But it took great concentration.

As far as the moral imperative... I don't believe in morals, so it's hard to say. The meat industry is despicable, though, and I'd be much happier seeing meat prices quadruple so that cows and chickens can live normal lives, then be killed and eaten rather than grown as they are now.

Both humans and animals were created vegetarian (Genesis 1:29-30). But after the Fall, some animals became carnivorous (see Did God create carnivory? for some ideas), while God gave humans permission to eat meat after the Flood, as he had previously "given the green plants for food'. This permission has never been revoked, and Jesus ate the Passover lamb and even ate fish after His resurrection.

Socrates, why do you still quote AiG nonstop, even after I've demonstrated that they are untrustworthy? Who in their right minds would look to a shiesty organization like that for answers?