Trump proposes injecting people with disinfectant to kill Coronavirus

[oxmixmudd]

No he didn't. LOL. he was basically parroting Bryan who just finished talking about using light and disinfectant to kill the virus on surfaces. My goodness, Shuny, did you even watch the press conference? Or are you just being spoonfed liberal news articles?

No, he was not parroting Bryon. Bryon was talking about how certain chemicals can kill the virus on surfaces. Trump was extending what Bryon said and offering the possibility those same chemicals might be helpful if used internally

How you react to that is your business, but be careful your description of the event captures what actually happened.

[shunyadragon]

read post #63. Yes it is. Not a substantive response. You've uncritically swallowed the media narrative without thinking about what trump actually said.

Have you noticed that the same people who voted for Trump because he says what he means, are the same people who spent the last two years explaining he did not mean what he said.

[MaxVel]

Source: Trump

And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning.
So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you're going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds -- it sounds interesting to me.
One minute medical doctors tremendous number lungs
Positive
So we'll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute, that's -- that's pretty powerful.

© Copyright Original Source

So the reaction to that by the media is primed by the knowledge that such careless words from the president can induce people to act:

Increase in calls to poison control - people trying to try out the presidents 'musing'.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...ctant-comments

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...7f12b9a69edef0

a) at least one person trying to clean their sinuses with a detergent
b) at least one person trying a clorox gargle
c) companies producing disinfectants like lysol issuing statements warning people not to use their products outside the parameters made clear on their labels





The truth of this is between the claim 'Trump suggested swallowing Clorox' and 'Trump did nothing wrong'.

Trump's words did indeed ask the question 'could these cleaning solutions be injected in some way into a person'. He also added text trying to encourage investigation of the possibility.

One can't dismiss first the basic ignorance that doesn't understand these chemicals can be deadly if ingested. One also can't dismiss the fact that there are enough people out there with the same level of ignorance and a devotion to Trump that will cause them to try his suggestion. Just as happened with the hydrochloroquine.

So there is a valid point to be made that Trumps statements are being exaggerated to emphasise their foolishness. But there is no just reason not to be appalled at him making them, and there is a real danger associated with the fact he made them. And there is also this:

Donald Trump goes with his gut, not with knowledge
Donald Trump has created an environment where is it difficult if not impossible to counter him, to tell him he is wrong.
Donald Trump is not a well educated man, and his gut is useless in any arena where expert and/or scientific knowledge is required to avoid real danger.

The other underlying element fueling this 'exaggeration' of Trump's statements is the danger of him being willing to make such a statements in a public setting without seeking expert advise first and him not being immediately corrected by those around him that know how stupid his comments were. That is a real and present danger to this nation, that those around him that know better are routinely silenced or do not feel free to tell him the truth.

You make some good points. Part of the issue is that Trump says lots of off the cuff things, out-there things, and there's an audience keen for him to look stupid. And sometimes he does say really insensitive stuff.


Many of the problems you raise could be fixed or reduced if there was a news media that was NOT eager to seize upon the slightest mis-statement or unclear thing Trump says and run with it. Blowing this up into something it's not - as if Trump was recommending everyone inject disinfectant into their bloodstream (in context, he was asking if it was possible to look into using such chemicals internally i.e. in the lungs) - is very irresponsible on the media's part, and anyone foolish enough to inject themselves with Lysol or whatever is the media's fault (and their own fault for not exercising common sense), not Trump's.


(1) First I check to see what Trump actually said (often reports are a paraphrase or quotemine), and the see the full context - note the OP's suggestion that we avoid the first 30 seconds of the (even then, partial and lacking context) quote.

(2) I look for the most charitable reading of what he said - because usually I've already got the most uncharitable interpretation from the media or elsewhere. What was Trump, in context, trying to say? What was his intended meaning?


(3) The truth is somewhere in the middle of those.

I try to exercise charity as a principle when looking at something Trump has said, because I think that is a godly virtue, and it is what I would hope others do when trying to understand my communication.



It seems blindingly obvious to me that he was not, here, suggesting that people take syringes at home and inject Chlorox into their veins. For some in the media to suggest that that was his meaning is purely malicious - a twisting of his words in their context, and dangerous and reckless, because there are (a few) people dumb enough to try that if it's suggested. Imagine if someone died as a result of this... ...would those in the media making a meal of this feel regret, or responsibility in any way? I doubt it. Yet if something like that happened, they would bear at least partial responsibility.

On a positive note, for once the Independent published something balanced about Trump:

The controversy over disinfectant began at a White House press briefing on Thursday, when the president mused aloud: “And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because, you see, it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number.”

Here we have an actual quote.

His claims were immediately condemned by doctors, health officials and cleaning product companies warning people not to drink their products.

Following his statement, the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention said that “household cleaners and disinfectants can cause health problems when not used properly” and urged Americans to “follow the instructions on the product label to ensure safe and effective use” at home.

Poison control centres reportedly fielded calls from sick Americans and issued statements telling people not to ingest the chemicals.

Note that Trump never suggested anyone to drink a cleaning product, or ingest one - yet somehow people have to be warned not to do something dangerous, that Trump never suggested or referred to in any way. He also said in that briefing that medical doctors needed to be involved in looking into using disinfectants. Not 'go off and do this at home'.


from the start of the article, emphasis mine:

A White House doctor leading Donald TrumpÂ’s response to the coronavirus pandemic has refused to condemn his potentially deadly suggestion that patients inject disinfectant as a possible cure.

Dr Deborah Birx, who visibly winced during the presidentÂ’s Thursday press briefing, sought to play down the presidentÂ’s remarks during television appearances on Sunday.

Asked whether she’s concerned people might “take bleach” based on the president’s comments, Dr Birx told NBC’s Meet the Press on Sunday that she “made it very clear” how she had interpreted the president’s statement and said that “this is not a treatment”.

Dr Birx pointed to a study from the Department of Homeland Security about the effects of sunlight, bleach and isopropyl alcohol on the virus, which the president asked Dr Birx and other officials to study on humans.

She said that it’s “important to figure out” whether there is “anything that decreases the half-life of that virus” and said that “direct sunlight may actually be able to kill the virus”.

Note the first underlined phrase: the writer is still trying to imply that Trump said something he did not, relying on the ambiguity of 'inject' - in actual context, Trump was clearly talking about injecting into the lungs - i.e. an aerosol, vapour, or spray, not injecting into the bloodstream.

Note that Dr Birx's statements quoted from the Meet the Press are snippets without a context.

Note the second underlined part, and the bold following: Dr. Birx is clear that Trump was asking medical experts to study the possibility of using chemicals known to kill the virus in the environment, in human treatments. Personally I think that a long shot, but it's quite reasonable - sensible even - for the President to ask experts to look into it. Which is what Trump was doing.

[MaxVel]

Have you noticed that the same people who voted for Trump because he says what he means, are the same people who spent the last two years explaining he did not mean what he said.

Fake news Shunya.

The same people who determined - before Trump was even sworn in - that he was 'literally Hitler' and would be the 'worst President ever' are still stuck twisting everything he says into the worst possible interpretation, even in the midst of a world-level crisis. It's disgusting - scoring political points and making Trump look bad is more important that risking people's lives by falsely reporting lies.

Trump has since clearly clarified what he meant, but some people hate him so much that they can't stop banging on about it, even if it might put people (idiots dumb enough to drink bleach despite what it says on the bottle, despite common sense) in danger.



Situation A

Trump said something very foolish, and dangerous if followed.

Media reports it, harps on it, blows it up. Headlines it, knowing that many people won't think it through carefully or read past the clickbait headlines.

Trump looks like an idiot, media happy.

Trump subsequently clarifies his statement into something more sensible.

Media bangs on about the first statement, implies White House doctors are 'refusing to condemn' it - i.e. it was OK. Result - more misunderstanding, people possibly at risk of doing something dangerous.

Trump looks like an idiot, media happy, people in danger.


That's what you are pushing, Shunya.




Situation B

Trump said something very foolish, and dangerous if followed.

Media reports it, reminds people that it would be dangerous to do that. Asks President immediately for a clarification.

Trump subsequently clarifies his statement into something more sensible and clearer.


Media reports on Trump's clarification, reminds people to always consult medical experts before treating illnesses, etc.

Trump looks a little foolish, media a little happy, people safe.


That's what should have happened if the media actually cared about people's lives over making Trump look bad.

[Starlight]

that he was 'literally Hitler' and would be the 'worst President ever'

Those seem quite different claims, one quite rational, one quite not.

Situation A

Trump said something very foolish, and dangerous if followed.

...

Situation B

Trump said something very foolish, and dangerous if followed.

I think a leader of a country should not in general be a person who says foolish and dangerous things. I would say that a very major part of the job description of a leader of a country is the opposite: That they should be known as a reliable person who says sensible things that when followed produce good outcomes.

The continued willingness of some Trumpsters here to try and forgive what Trump says (e.g. claiming we should only focus on what he does not what he says) shows an apparent lack of basic understanding of what the role of a leader is.

[MaxVel]

Those seem quite different claims, one quite rational, one quite not.

I think a leader of a country should not in general be a person who says foolish and dangerous things. I would say that a very major part of the job description of a leader of a country is the opposite: That they should be known as a reliable person who says sensible things that when followed produce good outcomes.

The continued willingness of some Trumpsters here to try and forgive what Trump says (e.g. claiming we should only focus on what he does not what he says) shows an apparent lack of basic understanding of what the role of a leader is.

Neither of the 'Situations' I presented above reflect what I actually think Trump said in this case.

Trump is brash, brassy, 'loud' and very confident. Sometimes he says things which are, umm, less than ideal for a leader.


However, he faces a section of the media intent on presenting everything he says and does in the worst possible light. They persist in this, even when it endangers foolish and naive people, while we're in the midst of a worldwide crisis. Disgusting.



Drop the labelling ("Trumpsters"). It's a shortcut to ignoring what others say and substituting your own prejudices instead.

[NorrinRadd]

...
Trump has since clearly clarified what he meant, ...

Bad Orange Man's original quote was clearly just an off-the-cuff question. It was not in ANY way a proposal or suggestion, and those who claim it was are retards or damnable liars.

OTOH, his "clarification" that it was a "sarcastic" question was laughably foolish.

[Roy]

Conclusion: 'Trump proposes that people inject themselves with disinfectant to kill Covid-19' = Fake News

Actual story: Trump asks experts if it's possible to treat Covid-19 internally in the lungs, with light (e.g. UV light) or disinfectant (i.e. a.chemical agent that kills the virus)

Actual actual story: US president is sufficiently clueless about the dangers inherent in injecting, drinking or breathing the fumes of disinfectant that he asks about it during live interview.

[seanD]

Actual actual story: US president is sufficiently clueless about the dangers inherent in injecting, drinking or breathing the fumes of disinfectant that he asks about it during live interview.

"It wouldn't be through injection" -- Trump reiterated to the press when the subject was brought up again (from the transcript).

[Mountain Man]

What Trump says: "I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. [Turns to speak to his medical experts.] And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because, you see, it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number."

How the media reports it: "Trump recommends you drink bleach to kill the China flu"

[Sparko]

No Byron did not recommend the ingestion nor injection. Nonetheless the nutjob in the White House repeated the nutjob's recommendations in the letter he sent to the White House almost verbatim

Dumbass. Bryan said that sunlight (UV) and disinfectants killed the virus. Trump heard that and got the bright idea that they should investigate ways to get the UV light and something like a disinfectant into the body and that is what he asked Bryan about. It had nothing to do with reading some crazy letter which there is no evidence he read. He didn't repeat anything verbatim. The crazy guy says you should drink industrial bleach. That isn't even "injection" like Trump mentioned. And Trump never even mentioned bleach. He said "something like" "disinfectants" - which could mean anything Bryan tested, including alcohol.

[shunyadragon]

What Trump says: "I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. [Turns to speak to his medical experts.] And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because, you see, it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number."

How the media reports it: "Trump recommends you drink bleach to kill the China flu"

He recommended it as possible treatment in a public forum, which is like shouting 'FIRE' in a crowded auditorium.

Source: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200421/disinfectant-linked-poisoning-risea-amid-covid19#1

Disinfectant-Linked Poisoning Rises Amid COVID-19

By E.J. Mundell
HealthDay Reporter
TUESDAY, April 21, 2020 (HealthDay News) -- A woman overcome by toxic fumes from her kitchen sink is rushed to the hospital; a toddler is treated in the ER after swallowing hand sanitizer.

As Americans' obsession with disinfecting their homes against coronavirus rises, so are the number of poisoning emergencies like these, a new government report finds.

"Exposures to cleaners and disinfectants reported to NPDS [the National Poison Data System] increased substantially in early March 2020," noted a team led by Dr. Arthur Chang, a researcher at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

In fact, there's been a more than 20% spike in the number of such poisoning emergencies reported to the NPDS, compared to the same time last year, the report found.

While cleaning products and disinfectants can be toxic to germs, they can also prove toxic to people when mixed or used improperly, experts noted.

"While cleaning your home and your hands is important in reducing your risk for COVID-19, it's also important that you take the proper precautions to reduce a toxic exposure, which can lead to an ER visit," said emergency physician Dr. Robert Glatter, of Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City.

Bleach is one of the most common chemicals misused, the CDC team found, with improper use of bleach accounting "for the largest percentage of the increase" in household poisonings since the COVID-19 pandemic took hold.

In one case, "an adult woman heard on the news to clean all recently purchased groceries before consuming them," Chang's group said. Going perhaps a little too far, "she filled a sink with a mixture of 10% bleach solution, vinegar and hot water, and soaked her produce," the researchers said.


The result: Fumes filled her kitchen, the woman began to have difficulty breathing and had to call 911. She was rushed to the ER where she was treated with oxygen and bronchodilators and later released.

"The combination of bleach with vinegar produces toxic chlorine gas," Glatter noted. "Lack of proper ventilation can place you at risk for a toxic exposure, which could be deadly."

© Copyright Original Source

Source: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/25/845015236/nyc-poison-control-sees-uptick-in-calls-after-trumps-disinfectant-comments

NYC Poison Control Sees Uptick In Calls After Trump's Disinfectant Comments
April 25, 20207:13 PM ET
JASON SLOTKIN


President Trump on Thursday speculated about using disinfectants as possible treatments for the coronavirus. Poison control centers have seen an uptick in calls about cleaner and disinfectant exposures through March of this year.
Alex Brandon/AP
New York City says its poison control center received a higher-than-normal number of calls in the day after President Trump speculated that injecting household disinfectants could be a coronavirus treatment.

The city's Department of Health and Mental Hygiene said that in an 18-hour period ending at 3 p.m. Friday, the poison control center recorded 30 cases. These included nine "specifically about exposure to Lysol, 10 cases specifically about bleach and 11 cases about exposures to other household cleaners," department spokesperson Pedro F. Frisneda tells NPR. That compares with only 13 cases for the same time frame one year ago.

That same day, the city's health commissioner released a message discouraging New Yorkers from injecting bleach and other disinfectants.

"Very clearly, disinfectants are not intended for ingestion either by mouth, by ears, by breathing them in — in any way, shape or form. And doing so can put people at great risk," said Dr. Oxiris Barbot in a video posted to Twitter.

© Copyright Original Source

[shunyadragon]

Dumbass. Bryan said that sunlight (UV) and disinfectants killed the virus. Trump heard that and got the bright idea that they should investigate ways to get the UV light and something like a disinfectant into the body and that is what he asked Bryan about. It had nothing to do with reading some crazy letter which there is no evidence he read. He didn't repeat anything verbatim. The crazy guy says you should drink industrial bleach. That isn't even "injection" like Trump mentioned. And Trump never even mentioned bleach. He said "something like" "disinfectants" - which could mean anything Bryan tested, including alcohol.

Dumbass: Nonetheless the nutjob in the White House repeated the nutjob's recommendations in the letter he sent to the White House almost verbatim

[Sparko]

He recommended it as possible treatment in a public forum, which is like shouting 'FIRE' in a crowded auditorium.

Source: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200421/disinfectant-linked-poisoning-risea-amid-covid19#1

Disinfectant-Linked Poisoning Rises Amid COVID-19

By E.J. Mundell
HealthDay Reporter
TUESDAY, April 21, 2020 (HealthDay News) -- A woman overcome by toxic fumes from her kitchen sink is rushed to the hospital; a toddler is treated in the ER after swallowing hand sanitizer.

As Americans' obsession with disinfecting their homes against coronavirus rises, so are the number of poisoning emergencies like these, a new government report finds.

"Exposures to cleaners and disinfectants reported to NPDS [the National Poison Data System] increased substantially in early March 2020," noted a team led by Dr. Arthur Chang, a researcher at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

In fact, there's been a more than 20% spike in the number of such poisoning emergencies reported to the NPDS, compared to the same time last year, the report found.

While cleaning products and disinfectants can be toxic to germs, they can also prove toxic to people when mixed or used improperly, experts noted.

"While cleaning your home and your hands is important in reducing your risk for COVID-19, it's also important that you take the proper precautions to reduce a toxic exposure, which can lead to an ER visit," said emergency physician Dr. Robert Glatter, of Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City.

Bleach is one of the most common chemicals misused, the CDC team found, with improper use of bleach accounting "for the largest percentage of the increase" in household poisonings since the COVID-19 pandemic took hold.

In one case, "an adult woman heard on the news to clean all recently purchased groceries before consuming them," Chang's group said. Going perhaps a little too far, "she filled a sink with a mixture of 10% bleach solution, vinegar and hot water, and soaked her produce," the researchers said.


The result: Fumes filled her kitchen, the woman began to have difficulty breathing and had to call 911. She was rushed to the ER where she was treated with oxygen and bronchodilators and later released.

"The combination of bleach with vinegar produces toxic chlorine gas," Glatter noted. "Lack of proper ventilation can place you at risk for a toxic exposure, which could be deadly."

© Copyright Original Source

That article is talking about people misusing cleaning products while actually cleaning objects, NOT drinking them. This has nothing to to with Trump. At this point Shuny, you are either one of the most gullible and conspiracy minded people I have ever known, or you are making these false correlations and claims on purpose.

[NorrinRadd]

Hydrogen peroxide is on the CDC list of disinfectants approved for Wu-WHO Flu.

Hydrogen peroxide is regularly used for mouthwash and gargle.

Hydrogen peroxide is produce endogenously in the human body to fight infections.

Why is it crazy to wonder if an effective disinfectant could be adapted, by dosage or whatever, for internal use? Because ORANGE MAN BAD!!! Duh!