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Will COVID 19 return?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I find videos that seem entirely credible and well researched, til you see another video exposing the errors in that video, then another video making claims.... It's like we're trying to figure out who shot Kennedy.
    The Kennedy assassination is a bit tougher because information was not as readily available as we have now. So, the reconstructions and the testimonies are quite difficult to sort out. I don't think I've seen any videos on that where someone explains why another theory doesn't work.

    Videos that I see now bring up recordings of politicians, bureaucrats, Congress, specialists and the public. Plus, there are documents from the websites of various organizations showing leaders who have less advertised conflicting interests.

    One example is that we have the 5G industry testifying in Congress they have not done any testing of the technology for safety.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      Nor am I likely to spend a lot of time doing that again, Mike. I gave you some of that information in the last exchange, and you hand-waved anything/everything that disagreed with your POV and then returned to your mantra. I see no sign of that pattern changing here.
      Are you talking about the post of yours that I had just responded to? I don't see any sources of information for things you believe.

      I don't recall where you provided any information that I did not show its fallacy.

      I can't respond to this last post without hopeless effort to get you to understand anything. I don't see how your expertise exceeds that of the the doctors in the video I showed. We just go around in circles where you say you have proven something but there is no references and no counters to what I said.

      I will add this note: When I talk about deaths of influenza-like cases against COVID-19, I am looking at death counts adjusted for daily deaths of flu -- the yearly flu rates ascribed to a 6 month period and then determined at a daily rate from there. I think I did this in the Numbers Work thread.

      My warnings about the stupidity of the governors' response to this virus are not being controverted nor being heeded. So, we are simply doomed to the disaster caused by the governors.
      Last edited by mikewhitney; 05-10-2020, 02:40 PM.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
        I use this as an example of the misuse of massive quarantine where it is proven to be a totally incompentent policy. The hospitals are nearly empty.


        If you don't live in a densely populated area of the country, where people are abiding by the community's public health measures to stop or at least decrease the rate of infection, then that's why your hospitals aren't overwhelmed with COVID-19 patients. If you live in a densely populated area and the hospitals aren't full of COVID patients, it's due to the so called "massive quarantune" (it's not really a genuine "quarantine" or curfew, but more of a social distancing measure, allowing people to leave their homes to buy supplies and take care of their needs, as safely as possible, given the circumstances). The fact people are taking precautions, like wearing masks in public, practicing social distancing..etc. Here in NYC, our hospitals are now seeing a dramatic decrease in COVID-19 patients, but that's because people are for the most part, not riding public transit without masks, most stores are closed, and most people are practicing social distancing (there are a few knuckleheads that aren't but in general, most people are wearing masks in public and keeping their distance).

        I agree with those who insist on opening the country up, in light of the fact that our government hasn't taken the proper steps to ensure people can eat, pay their bills, while expected to be "quarantined" in their homes. That is probably just as hazardous, if not more so, than the virus, in view of the fact that, people don't have money to survive. How are people doing to live, if the government is more concerned with providing monetary aid to multi-billion dollar corporations, than the average, working American. There should be a nationwide, federally enforced, moratorium on rent and mortgage payments. This financial burden should be lifted and forgiven for the duration of the pandemic "quarantine" and shutdown. The utilities should not be cut anyone during this crises, and every American that earns less than half a million dollars yearly, should receive monetary assistance of at least $1200 monthly, including $500 for dependents. This wouldn't exclude unemployment payments or any other benefits, the person is receiving. This would allow Americans to comply with the public health and safety measures for several months, while our government, working with the private sector, would get this pandemic under control.


        We could open the economy much quicker, if we had a competent president, that would exercise his legal, executive powers to make millions of test kits available and allow Americans to have access to an emergency, preventative prophylaxis treatment using HCQ and likewise using HCQ, ZPak and zinc sulfate, to treat COVID-patients early, before they develop a serious infection. Dr Vladimir Zelenko and French doctor, Didier Raoult, and many other doctors around the world, have already proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, based on treating thousands of their COVID patients, that when HCQ is administered early in the infection, it reduces the need for hospitalization by at least 90%.


        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7102549/

        https://www.mediterranee-infection.c...42020_vD1v.pdf

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7151271/

        Dr. Didier Raoult published results for 1,061 coronavirus patients treated using hdroxychloroquine with 91% success rate. Dr. Raoult found:

        “Hydroxychloroquine Azithromycin combination, when started immediately after diagnosis, is a safe and efficient treatment for COVID-19, with a mortality rate of 0.5%, in elderly patients. It avoids worsening and clears virus persistence and contagiosity in most cases.”




        This is because people need the continual interaction with other people both for the emotional aspect of enhancing the immune system and for exercising the immune system with germs from other people. What have you found on this? So far you are just questioning what I have found but have not described what you have found, and where you have found this.
        Temporary social measures to reduce the infection rate of a deadly virus, in the middle of a mass pandemic, is the responsible course of action for socially conscious individuals, who value both themselves and others. Sure we are social beings, but nonetheless, there are many ways to socialize in the modern age, and a temporary restriction on certain types of social interaction or participating in certain social activities, is not going to significantly, negatively impact the vast majority of people. There are worse things that can happen to you, like for example, getting infected with COVID and needing to be intubated or perhaps infecting your parents, or your grandparents, watching them die from this virus (because you refused to do something as simple as wearing a mask in public).

        If our federal government had a competent president, we could get out of this national health crises, much sooner and without hundreds of thousands or even millions of Americans dying. However, based on recent developments in policy, the odds our country is going to get through this, without high casualties, numbering in the upper six figures, perhaps even above that, is quite low.



        I talk about the excessive quarantines in California ostensibly for flattening the load on hospitals. The hospitals have been nearly empty, which means we should have re-opened the economy sooner. People forget that the flattening of the curve was not for reducing deaths but was to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed. This is either stupidity on the part of most govenors (for not opening up the economy quicker) or was a bait-and-swap tactic where the public is made to accept the quarantine so hospitals are not overwhelmed but now are said that we have to do this until a vaccine is developed. This need for the salvation by a vaccine is without evidence. No one answers why this virus would need a vaccine when other viruses tend to go into the background or totally disappear. Do you have reason to think that a vaccine will be needed for this coronavirus?
        If the hospitals are "empty" , it's because people are taking precautions and wearing masks in public. There is not going to be an opening of the economy, until people are both, actually safe and feel safe. Economies need consumers, and if there is a virus loose in the general population, you're not going to have an economy. You can open your restaurant and other businesses establishments, and you're not going to have any customers. No customers or not enough customers, equates = out of business. You can't have employees, without consumers (or consumers without employees). The economic "eco-system", depends heavily on public safety. if consumers don't feel safe (and actually aren't safe), then you will have a economic depression. There's no way around it, other than, dealing with it properly. We need to resolve the pandemic, and that is done with mass testing and treatment. That "treatment" doesn't entail or imply a vaccine. There are many ways to deal with a virus, and to create "herd immunity", without mass casualties. However, we can't do that, unless we have competent leaders, a good government, something that unfortunately, generally, we don't have in this country. We have the cronies of big business in office, who are devoid of a social conscience and the competence to get us through a nationwide pandemic / national crises. Our leadership is unable to take the appropriate, necessary course of action to get us through this in one piece.


        I personally of the opinion that, we're going to open the country up for business, and a large amount of people are going to get infected, leading to a massive number of casualties, numbering in the upper six figures or beyond that.
        Last edited by YHWH RULES; 05-10-2020, 03:01 PM.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          I have no basis for thinking there is "censorship" targeted at the debate about the virus, possible cures, etc.
          That is just plain ignorance and disregard of facts. Do you have another theory for the censorship or are you saying there is no censorship?

          What would it take to convince you about the censorship? Facts and examples don't seem to help. I don't know why you could hold to this denial so strongly.


          You paint a false dichotomy. Flattening the curve is about BOTH reducing hospitalizations (actually - generally reducing the load on healthcare - not just hospitals) and about reducing mortality. Until we have a vaccine, herd immunity will only be achieved by people getting and surviving the virus. However, the morality rate for the virus is significantly higher than the flu and, like the flu, disproportionately impacts the elderly and medically compromised. That also means, for cultural reasons, it disproportionately impacts the poor and minorities. IMO, we should be taking every possible care to protect these communities.
          The worst effect that is going to happen on the poor and the minorities will be the deaths from the downturn we caused on the economy. Further poverty will result as well as deaths from increased unemployment. But I suppose that you have not looked into that at all, since you are focused on the scare tactics.
          Last edited by mikewhitney; 05-10-2020, 03:02 PM.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
            That is just plain ignorance and disregard of facts. Do you have another theory for the censorship or are you saying there is no censorship?

            What would it take to convince you about the censorship? Facts and examples don't seem to help. I don't know why you could hold to this denial so strongly.



            The worst effect that is going to happen on the poor and the minorities will be the deaths from the downturn we caused on the economy. Further poverty will result as well as deaths from increased unemployment. But I suppose that you have not looked into that at all, since you are focused on the scare tactics.
            Actually, at this time, it's the virus that's killing the poor and minorities, not unemployment. The income issue could be resolved, if right wing republicans (the cronies of big money corporations and bankers), were more concerned for the public good than their investment portfolios and that of their wealthy donors. They don't bat an eye, handing trillions of our tax dollars to corporations, but ask them to vote for monthly monetary assistance for working class families during this crises and they cringe and do everything possible to avoid it. Socialism for the rich and pick yourself up by your bootstraps capitalism and austerities for the poor. That's how it always is, with these right wingers.

            We are not going through an economic depression the likes of what occurred in the 1930s, when the economy actually collapsed on its own, without a mass pandemic. All of the infrastructure, the facilities, the means of production and its capital, is currently still intact and ready to revive itself as soon as consumers feel and are actually safe. Taking a brief, several month pause, in our socioeconomic life and system, while we resolve the problem with this virus, doesn't have to be a big deal, unless we pretend it is. Not that long ago we had right wing republicans on FOX news suggesting people should just pretend the virus doesn't exist and go out and live life as usual, allowing grandma and grandma to die. Sacrifice those who are vulnerable to this virus, and let's keep making money. But these right wing psychopaths, don't realize that the economy needs more than just people showing up to work. The economy needs consumers, customers, buyers, and if people feel afraid (for good reason), of being infected with a deadly virus, they're not going to go out there and buy, eat, get a haircut, nearly as much as before. That "not nearly as much", can make a huge difference, to the point of creating a depression.

            So this virus has to be dealt with, ASAP. I already gave a few ideas and measures we can take to re-open the economy quickly, within a month or two, but unfortunately, our country isn't going to implement such measures. We're going to open the country for business, and more people are going to go out and get infected, eventually overwhelming our hospitals with COVID patients. 80% of everyone who gets infected, will have a mild or moderate infection, not needing medical treatment. They're going to be OK, and in two or three weeks, they'll hopefully be immune to the virus. However, as high as 20% of those who get infected, will need professional medical attention, at a local hospital (in a country as fat a we are, with 40% of our population being overweight and so many people having hypertension, type 2 diabetes, heart disease..etc, we can expect a lot of people, regardless of their age, needing to go to the hospital). If the hospitals are overwhelmed with COVID patients, a significant percentage of those who would otherwise live, if they had access to medical attention will die, due to lack of medical care or adequate care. The mortality rate will sore, as a result of this problem, due to our hospitals not being able to meet the need for medical care.


            Right now we don't see that influx of patients, due to the quarantine and people wearing masks in public. All of that will be thrown into the trash bin, as soon as we stop being careful and we will get our "herd immunity" at the cost of perhaps a million dead, or maybe even twenty or thirty million dead (as outrageous as that might sound, do the math. Most of our population will get infected and we have a population of 330 million. With a mortality rate as high as 15%, you can only imagine how many Americans could potentially die from this disease within the span of a year or even less, if we ignore the pandemic and our hospitals are overwhelmed). Completely unnecessary, if we did what is necessary to beat this pandemic, as a nation, but we're not going to do that, hence we're going to suffer the largest casualty rate in the world.
            Last edited by YHWH RULES; 05-10-2020, 03:43 PM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              All of this smacks just a little too much of "conspiracy theory" for my tastes, and I still only have your observations and word for any of this. What are your sources? Where have you gathered the information you are putting forward here so I can examine it myself? I have found a few anecdotal things, but nothing of any substance to hang a hat onto.

              Sources?

              Examine the above post where I provide some references and sources. HCQ is a very effective treatment for coronavirus, and its not a conspiracy theory to suggest a profit driven pharmaceutical industry, doesn't want HCQ protocol to become ready available. Cheap, simple, effective solutions, they can't patent and profit from, are not what they and their cronies in the media, the medical community and our government are going to promote. There are several reasons why HCQ is being dismissed in the media and certain elements in the medical community / drug research and development industry and its not because HCQ doesn't work, because there's way too much evidence for it being effective. That evidence may not be the result of double blind, controlled, peered reviewed studies, but it doesn't have to be, to build a solid care for its effectiveness. There's enough scientific and real world, in the field data and experience, demonstrating its effectiveness in treating COVID in high risk patients, especially when administered early in the infection, rather than later, when a person is in cytokinic shock and intubated.


              We could quickly end the national lock-down, if we had enough doses of HCQ, CPak and Zinc to treat people early, who are infected. Synthetic COVID antibodies, natural antibodies from those previously infected and even serum drawn from certain mammals who were previously infected with Coronavirus, can be used to inoculate human beings, to COVID for three months, six months..etc, with one or two injections. Anyone can google "antibody serum COVID" or search for it on Youtube. We don't need a vaccine at the moment to reopen the country, we just need to take the necessary steps to achieve it and we're not doing it. We're going to discard the public safety measures, without having the tools in place to effectively deal with the virus. We can expect the death rate to sore in the next few weeks and months, until we're forced to go back on lock-down. Millions of American can die from this virus, if we don't do this correctly.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                Are you talking about the post of yours that I had just responded to? I don't see any sources of information for things you believe.

                I don't recall where you provided any information that I did not show its fallacy.
                I am talking about the discussion from the "The Numbers Don't Add Up" thread. And no, you did not show it's fallacy - though you clearly thought you had.

                Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                I can't respond to this last post without hopeless effort to get you to understand anything. I don't see how your expertise exceeds that of the the doctors in the video I showed. We just go around in circles where you say you have proven something but there is no references and no counters to what I said.
                I still don't see where you have actually said anything, Mike. I have no argument here to respond to.

                Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                II will add this note: When I talk about deaths of influenza-like cases against COVID-19, I am looking at death counts adjusted for daily deaths of flu -- the yearly flu rates ascribed to a 6 month period and then determined at a daily rate from there. I think I did this in the Numbers Work thread.
                For a worst-case year, the flu in the U.S. produces a high of 61K deaths. Even if we confine those deaths to the peak months (Jan and Feb), you get about 1,000 deaths per day. If you spread them over the entire 6-month flu season, you get about 340 deaths per day. By comparison, the last six weeks have averaged 1,862 deaths per day. That's almost twice the flu rate collapsed to the two peak months, and more then 6 times the flu rate over the entire flu season. And that is WITH extensive (but imperfect) social distancing in place. The models are fairly consistent about what the death levels could be like without social distancing, and we have several countries that have shown us what a badly managed crisis looks like. Our has been badly enough managed - we just haven't been "the worst."

                Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                My warnings about the stupidity of the governors' response to this virus are not being controverted nor being heeded. So, we are simply doomed to the disaster caused by the governors.
                We are facing the problems created by the pandemic. Governors and the fed are responding, for better or worse, to the pandemic. Apparently you think Governors shutting things down and enforcing social distancing are making a mistake - but the data suggests that governors who are not, and those who are re-opening prematurely, are the ones making the mistakes.

                However, we lack any broadly implemented testing that could actually tell us which is true. Without the testing, we are dependent on a thinner and less conclusion information set. Unfortunately, we have a federal executive that is downplaying the importance of testing.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                  That is just plain ignorance and disregard of facts. Do you have another theory for the censorship or are you saying there is no censorship?
                  I have seen no evidence that Covid-19 debate is being censured.

                  Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                  What would it take to convince you about the censorship?
                  A pattern of actual censorship.

                  Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                  Facts and examples don't seem to help. I don't know why you could hold to this denial so strongly.

                  The worst effect that is going to happen on the poor and the minorities will be the deaths from the downturn we caused on the economy. Further poverty will result as well as deaths from increased unemployment. But I suppose that you have not looked into that at all, since you are focused on the scare tactics.
                  These are unsubstantiated claims based on speculation. There are pretty solid numbers concerning the impact of the pandemic if mitigation is not implemented. There is nothing but speculation about deaths due to economic downturn, AFAICT.
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by YHWH RULES View Post
                    Examine the above post where I provide some references and sources. HCQ is a very effective treatment for coronavirus, and its not a conspiracy theory to suggest a profit driven pharmaceutical industry, doesn't want HCQ protocol to become ready available. Cheap, simple, effective solutions, they can't patent and profit from, are not what they and their cronies in the media, the medical community and our government are going to promote. There are several reasons why HCQ is being dismissed in the media and certain elements in the medical community / drug research and development industry and its not because HCQ doesn't work, because there's way too much evidence for it being effective. That evidence may not be the result of double blind, controlled, peered reviewed studies, but it doesn't have to be, to build a solid care for its effectiveness. There's enough scientific and real world, in the field data and experience, demonstrating its effectiveness in treating COVID in high risk patients, especially when administered early in the infection, rather than later, when a person is in cytokinic shock and intubated.

                    We could quickly end the national lock-down, if we had enough doses of HCQ, CPak and Zinc to treat people early, who are infected. Synthetic COVID antibodies, natural antibodies from those previously infected and even serum drawn from certain mammals who were previously infected with Coronavirus, can be used to inoculate human beings, to COVID for three months, six months..etc, with one or two injections. Anyone can google "antibody serum COVID" or search for it on Youtube. We don't need a vaccine at the moment to reopen the country, we just need to take the necessary steps to achieve it and we're not doing it. We're going to discard the public safety measures, without having the tools in place to effectively deal with the virus. We can expect the death rate to sore in the next few weeks and months, until we're forced to go back on lock-down. Millions of American can die from this virus, if we don't do this correctly.
                    I am not seeing the justification for your leap from the first paragraph to the second. What are being made here are highly generalized claims. Where are the numbers?

                    But I am in agreement about the last sentence: Millions of American can die from this virus, if we don't do this correctly. One of the key things we need to "do this right" is the data that would come from broad-based testing, and a consistent application of trace/test/treat. Unfortunately, we have a federal government downplaying the importance of testing, putting all of us int he position of "flying blind" with only a fragment of the information we need.
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      These are unsubstantiated claims based on speculation. There are pretty solid numbers concerning the impact of the pandemic if mitigation is not implemented. There is nothing but speculation about deaths due to economic downturn, AFAICT.
                      Where are the solid numbers? Are you relying again on Ferguson?

                      I don't get you. You disregard everything to make your uninformed and undocumented response to me.

                      I'm not interested in spoon feeding you. I have presented some examples of censorship. I am not going to document hundreds of them only to have you still say there is no evidence.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                        Where are the solid numbers? Are you relying again on Ferguson?
                        I'm relying on basic epidemiology. There is a good (general) discussion of the topic here. The numbers arise from a number of sources, but there is a discussion of the Coronavirus R0 value here. I have no clue who "Ferguson" is.

                        Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                        I don't get you. You disregard everything to make your uninformed and undocumented response to me.
                        I documented my claims in the other thread. You hand-waved them away. All I have said here is I'm not looking to spend the time/effort to do it again given that is your predeliction.

                        Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                        I'm not interested in spoon feeding you. I have presented some examples of censorship. I am not going to document hundreds of them only to have you still say there is no evidence.
                        You have given me two examples of videos that were taken down. I have not seen any link between their absence and systematic censorship of Covid-19 debates. There are many reasons a video can be taken down. It could have had audio that was illegally included. It could have used language that was against site policy. It could have had a copyright and the owner objected. It could have contained intentionally false and misleading information, which some platforms are beginning to take a stand against. I have no evidence of deliberate censorship of that particular topic. When I go to you tube and search on "Covid-19" and "Debate" or "Discussion" I find many videos expressing a wide variety of views.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          I'm relying on basic epidemiology. There is a good (general) discussion of the topic here. The numbers arise from a number of sources, but there is a discussion of the Coronavirus R0 value here. I have no clue who "Ferguson" is.



                          I documented my claims in the other thread. You hand-waved them away. All I have said here is I'm not looking to spend the time/effort to do it again given that is your predeliction.



                          You have given me two examples of videos that were taken down. I have not seen any link between their absence and systematic censorship of Covid-19 debates. There are many reasons a video can be taken down. It could have had audio that was illegally included. It could have used language that was against site policy. It could have had a copyright and the owner objected. It could have contained intentionally false and misleading information, which some platforms are beginning to take a stand against. I have no evidence of deliberate censorship of that particular topic. When I go to you tube and search on "Covid-19" and "Debate" or "Discussion" I find many videos expressing a wide variety of views.
                          It is too bad you didn't hear about Ferguson. His modeling code is the basis for the Imperial College calculations in the Michigan link you gave. Ferguson's programming code was a complicated mess which prevents people from checking its accuracy. Plus, Imperial College gave models that never were realistic.

                          The weforum is not a good source because they are part of the narrow circle involved in the profiting of the coronavirus.
                          Last edited by mikewhitney; 05-11-2020, 03:44 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                            It is too bad you didn't hear about Ferguson. His modeling code is the basis for the Imperial College calculations in the Michigan link you gave. Ferguson's programming code was a complicated mess which prevents people from checking its accuracy. Plus, Imperial College gave models that never were realistic.
                            The basic epidemiology science is solid and well-established - and fairly simple to understand. They essentially establish the "worst case" scenario. The models that are built on top of it then try to factor in realities on the ground and will quickly become complex. R0 can be significantly impacted by social isolation, for example. If that level of isolation differs from country-to-country and even region-to-region within each country, the model becomes more complex. When you begin to factor in demographics like age, the health of the population by demographic, and all of the rest of the things that can impact mortality, the complexity gets worse. There is no simple number, and people will agree/disagree on the assumptions that go into the models.

                            Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                            The weforum is not a good source because they are part of the narrow circle involved in the profiting of the coronavirus.
                            When I cite a source, I have usually already checked multiple other sources and I am looking for parallelism between their numbers/claims. Outliers I discard. I linked weforum because they were representational of the numbers I am seeing being reported widely.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              I am not seeing the justification for your leap from the first paragraph to the second. What are being made here are highly generalized claims. Where are the numbers?

                              But I am in agreement about the last sentence: Millions of American can die from this virus, if we don't do this correctly. One of the key things we need to "do this right" is the data that would come from broad-based testing, and a consistent application of trace/test/treat. Unfortunately, we have a federal government downplaying the importance of testing, putting all of us int he position of "flying blind" with only a fragment of the information we need.

                              Your disingenuous, offhandish dismissal of the material I presented, where doctors testify to the efficacy of using HCQ, is irrational and most likely politically motivated. I also presented the results of actual studies. These doctors have now thousands of high risk patients who have received treatment with HCQ, without any complications. When taken early, rather than when the patient is intubated and in a coma, dying in the ICU, Hydrocychloroquine has proven very effective. The mortality rate for high risk patients who take HCQ early, is reduced from as high as 10% or higher, to lower than 1%. If you want to pretend HCQ doesn't work, go right ahead, but your demand for double blind, controlled studies in the middle of a pandemic is quite absurd.


                              I may not agree with Donald Trump, on most issues, but he was correct in presenting HCQ as a possible treatment solution. I don't care if he's a right wing Republican, that is irrelevant. Too many leftists are throwing HCQ under the bus or just ignoring it, just because Trump offered it as a possible COVID treatment. That's foolish.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                You have given me two examples of videos that were taken down. I have not seen any link between their absence and systematic censorship of Covid-19 debates. There are many reasons a video can be taken down. It could have had audio that was illegally included. It could have used language that was against site policy. It could have had a copyright and the owner objected. It could have contained intentionally false and misleading information, which some platforms are beginning to take a stand against.
                                It could contain misinformation that will unnecessarily lead to people taking risks and getting killed.
                                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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