Will COVID 19 return?

[YHWH RULES]

If more Americans would wear a mask/cloth/cover their mouths & noses in public, I believe that would make a significant contribution to reducing the infection rate. It would give society enough time, to produce or/and import enough test kits and develop effective treatments (& a vaccine), for this virus, reducing morbidity and allowing the economy to open sooner. Providing consumers with the confidence they need to go about their day and function, work..etc. The wearing of masks in public, is an extremely important component in flattening that curve, but unfortunately there are way too many Americans , especially in certain parts of the country (which I won't bother to mention here), unwilling to cooperate and employ this very simple, effective measure. They'll pay for it, with more infections and their hospitals being overwhelmed with COVID patients.

[YHWH RULES]

. . . and Trump.

Exactly. It's not just China with its wet markets, it's also Trump, who is perhaps the most incompetent president in our nation's history. Conveniently scapegoating China, trying to evade and distract from the fact he was dismissing the gravity of the situation, until mid March. There are interviews of him as late as March 15th, dismissing the pandemic as mere hysteria and a political ploy from the left. Our country has gutted out its manufacturing base and our president refuses to exercise his executive authority and resources to effectively handle this national crises. He's relying way too much on the supposed generosity and capacity of the private sector, which is mostly driven by profit, vested interests, rather than the public good/public health needs. The government has to do much more, that's why we pay our taxes.

There should've been a nationwide moratorium on rent and mortgage payments, relieving both tenant and landlord of the burden of making such payments. Rentals, mortgages, utilities, all of these monthly payments should be lifted and forgiven, for the duration of this crises. Three months, six months, a year, whatever it takes for America to get back on its feet and avoid the death of millions of Americans. A monthly income of at least $1200 monthly, should also be given to practically everyone, with few exceptions, to meet their monthly needs. People need to buy supplies, while they're out of work and many people unfortunately don't qualify for unemployment. This will also stimulate the economy, allowing certain businesses to make sales and earn an income.

Unfortunately, our politicians are more interested in assisting multibillion dollar corporations and industries, that have more than enough liquidity/resources, to easily get them through this crises, even if it takes a year or more. The wealthy, especially the super-rich, should not be the priority of our elected officials. The rich, can hop on their learjets and mega-yachts and go to their private island getaways, their ocean front vacation homes in the Caribbean. They can even remain here in the US and have their employees go out and shop for them, while they lounge by their pools drinking pina coladas. The multimillionaires and billionaires are fine, its "Joe the plumber", working families, the working poor and middle class, that must be the priority of our elected officials, not their wealthy donors.

[carpedm9587]

I have gone and studied and learned about the science behind all of this. I just cannot entice other people whether leftist or conservative to look into it. It is a continual problem I have observed during the pandemic. No one is even paying attention to common sense about things we are told to do.

I too have been examining the science.

I would have expected some intellectual participants in this forum to look into details beyond the headlines. But there have been no takers on this, beyond just looking at Ferguson's failed models.

Ahh...I think I recall these discussions. IIRC, you were the one, in another thread, who insisted that the numbers "don't add up" and rejected every attempt by anyone to lay out the numbers and the story they tell.

If I am correct in that, your problem is not that no one would look into the details, Mike. Your problem is that you won't accept any interpretation of the details but the one you have locked yourself into. I'm not sure there is anything that can be done about that.

[mikewhitney]

A good and easy to understand statistic is excess deaths (above average values). So far, it should be about 150k in total.

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you talking about localities where the deaths in a week or month are higher than most years? Are we also consider what could be 100k deaths in America (and higher numbers across European countries) due to increased unemployment?

If people in certain areas are facing an epidemic, it is expected there will be more deaths in those areas. New York also had excess deaths due to overuse of the ventilators when normal ventilation protocols were proving 90% fatal. At that rate, it seems illogical to keep putting these people on ventilators. But there was also a financial incentive to do this, especially if they thought the patients were dying anyhow. Why did Medicare add this incentive into the COVID-19 treatments? Why was Birx calling for doctors to freely mark deaths on Death Certificates as being with COVID-19, instead of only putting COVID-19 as cause of death when COVID-19 was a main contributor to the death?

[shunyadragon]

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you talking about localities where the deaths in a week or month are higher than most years? Are we also consider what could be 100k deaths in America (and higher numbers across European countries) due to increased unemployment?

What could be?!?!?! Hypothetical to justify your agenda without references.

If people in certain areas are facing an epidemic, it is expected there will be more deaths in those areas. New York also had excess deaths due to overuse of the ventilators when normal ventilation protocols were proving 90% fatal. At that rate, it seems illogical to keep putting these people on ventilators. But there was also a financial incentive to do this, especially if they thought the patients were dying anyhow. Why did Medicare add this incentive into the COVID-19 treatments? Why was Birx calling for doctors to freely mark deaths on Death Certificates as being with COVID-19, instead of only putting COVID-19 as cause of death when COVID-19 was a main contributor to the death?

Hypothetical cause and effect with out references to justify your assertions.

[mikewhitney]

What could be?!?!?! Hypothetical to justify your agenda without references.

I believe I heard the 58,000 number derived from Brenner's analysis. I didn't do any careful extrapolation to state a 150,000 number but with a 10% increase of unemployment, we could see this number if one third of this increase lasts for 4 or 5 years for certain people.

Source: https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/will-deaths-of-despair-outpace-deaths-from-coronavirus/

There is a large volume of academic literature on “the social determinants of health” and “deaths of despair” caused by increases in the unemployment rate. The pioneering work in this field was conducted by Harvey Brenner (then at Johns Hopkins University) on behalf of the Joint Economic Committee of the United States Congress in the mid 1970s. Reviewing U.S. historical data over the period 1940 to 1973, Brenner found that:

…a 1% increase in the unemployment rate sustained over a period of six years has been associated (during the past three decades) with increases of 36,887 total deaths, including 20,240 cardiovascular deaths, 920 suicides, 648 homicides, 495 deaths from cirrhosis of the liver, 4,227 state mental hospital admissions, and 3,340 state prison admission.

Brenner’s estimates held up in subsequent studies of England & Wales, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand. It should be noted that there is also a large volume of literature that is critical of the Brenner model (see e.g. Cohen & Felson, 1979).

Brenner’s estimates are based on population figures from 1970. According to the U.S. Census bureau, the U.S. population was 205.1 million in 1970 and 327.2 million in 2018 — an increase in the population of 59.5%. So the actual increase in mortality caused by a 1% increase in the unemployment rate today (if it persisted for five years) might be closer to 58,834 lives lost. A more recent meta analysis of 42 studies conducted in 15 countries on the relationship between unemployment and all-cause mortality found that unemployment increased the risk of dying by 63% (Roelfs et al. 2011).

© Copyright Original Source

Hypothetical cause and effect with out references to justify your assertions.

Have you been asleep this long? I'm not sure what you have missed this last month. Here's an over-80% number mentioned on the Time website.

Source: https://time.com/5820556/ventilators-covid-19/

But for COVID-19, the numbers are even worse. Only a small portion of COVID-19 patients get sick enough to require ventilation—but for the unlucky few who do, data out of China and New York City suggest upward of 80% do not recover. A U.K. report put the number only slightly lower, at 66%.

Doctors like Kyle-Sidell (who TIME could not reach for comment) argue these numbers are so high because physicians are ventilating patients as though they have a condition called acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), when they in fact have a different type of lung damage that may not respond well to mechanical ventilation.

© Copyright Original Source

Here's Kyle-Sidell's video

He notes that the medical team would not change its ventilator treatment protocols in light of the different symptoms that were seen among the patients being treated for COVID-19 (compared to other SARS).

Each COVID-19 treated person who is put on a ventilator yields $39,000 for the hospital per Medicare policy.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/3000638001/
So, we have Dr. Jensen's testimony, plus this was verified further.

You can roughly see the promotion of COVID-19 as the predominant cause of death, even if it were only a minor contributor.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-1-Guidance-for-Certifying-COVID-19-Deaths.pdf

NCHS is receiving questions about how deaths involving the new coronavirus strain should be reported on death certificates. We are working on formal guidance to certifiers to be published as soon as possible. In the meantime, to address the immediate need, here is some basic information that can be shared in advance of the more formal and detailed guidance. It is important to emphasize that Coronavirus Disease 2019 or COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death. Other terminology, e.g., SARS-CoV-2, can be used as long as it is clear that it indicates the 2019 coronavirus strain, but we would prefer use of WHO’s standard terminology, e.g., COVID-19. Specification of the causal pathway leading to death in Part I of the certificate is also important. For example, in cases when COVID-19 causes pneumonia and fatal respiratory distress, both pneumonia and respiratory distress should be included along with COVID-19 in Part I. Certifiers should include as much detail as possible based on their knowledge of the case, medical records, laboratory testing, etc. If the decedent had other chronic conditions such as COPD or asthma that may have also contributed, these conditions can be reported in Part II.

© Copyright Original Source

Part II information would be just supplemental information while COVID-19 would be treated as the main cause. Usually, the death certificate would be more based on the Dr's assessment, which then could put the myocardial infarction the primary cause even though the patient might also have COVID-19 positive "symptoms"

We siee Birx promoting liberal marking of deaths as being COVID-19

Source: https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-dr-birx-we-have-very-liberal-recording-of-covid-deaths-if-they-test-positive-we-are-counting-that

Responding to a question from a reporter about potential underreporting of novel coronavirus deaths in the nation, Dr. Birx responded: “I think in this country, we are taking a very liberal approach to mortality. And I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks,” she said, adding, “If someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that.”

Dr. Birx suggested COVID-19 deaths in January and February were likely underreported, due to a lack of testing. “When there wasn’t testing in January and February, that’s a very different situation and unknown,” she explained.

While the U.S.’s death toll has been highlighted in relation to other counties, Dr. Birx pointed out that other nations are not recording as liberally as we are.

“There are other countries, that if you have a pre-existing condition, and let’s say the virus called you to go to the ICU (intensive care unit) and then have a heart or kidney problem,” she explained. “Some countries are recording that as a kidney issue, or a heart issue, and not a COVID-19 death.”

© Copyright Original Source

Is there anything else needed to catch you up on what is happening in the world?

[mikewhitney]

I too have been examining the science.



Ahh...I think I recall these discussions. IIRC, you were the one, in another thread, who insisted that the numbers "don't add up" and rejected every attempt by anyone to lay out the numbers and the story they tell.

If I am correct in that, your problem is not that no one would look into the details, Mike. Your problem is that you won't accept any interpretation of the details but the one you have locked yourself into. I

What details did you find convincing that California was suffering from this pandemic in any significant numbers of severe illness or death? Are you relying on Ferguson's unverifiable models?

I'm watching a video by two doctors in Kern County, California, who were noting that this is no bigger of a problem than yearly flu in California. You can catch their video at https://www.bitchute.com/video/oGVRqleTzzMi/
I would have posted their youtube video for this. However, youtube has been censoring any debate on the COVID-19, any points that don't match up with the propaganda from WHO or the mainstream media. We know there is a big problem when debate is being blocked.

I'm not sure there is anything that can be done about that.

Maybe this would help: a good argument against what I have noted.

I think most arguments referred back to the New York City, as if the whole world had the same problem.

Shuny brought up statistics for Sweden, that he said indicates they had bad policy. However, the number of COVID-19-related deaths was not a big change from normal numbers of daily deaths in Sweden. So, I did not see the policy problem that Shuny was concerned about.

[carpedm9587]

What details did you find convincing that California was suffering from this pandemic in any significant numbers of severe illness or death? Are you relying on Ferguson's unverifiable models?

Why is California being singled out?

I'm watching a video by two doctors in Kern County, California, who were noting that this is no bigger of a problem than yearly flu in California. You can catch their video at https://www.bitchute.com/video/oGVRqleTzzMi/
I would have posted their youtube video for this. However, youtube has been censoring any debate on the COVID-19, any points that don't match up with the propaganda from WHO or the mainstream media. We know there is a big problem when debate is being blocked.

Your evidence for this is...?

Maybe this would help: a good argument against what I have noted.

First, I no longer have any clue what specific arguments you've made. Second, my memory is that you hand-waved away so many responses that I don't really have the desire or energy to do the work to respond to anything you previously posted because history suggests you will hand-wave it away again.

I think most arguments referred back to the New York City, as if the whole world had the same problem.

I have never made such an argument. Indeed, I put forward the numbers for the U.S. without all of New York State included to show how we still compare badly to the rest of the world. The response? People cherry picked a few countries doing worse than us and claimed it demonstrated we were doing fine. The flawed logic in all of that is mind-boggling.

Shuny brought up statistics for Sweden, that he said indicates they had bad policy. However, the number of COVID-19-related deaths was not a big change from normal numbers of daily deaths in Sweden. So, I did not see the policy problem that Shuny was concerned about.

I have not seen or responded to this argument apparently made by Shuny.

[YHWH RULES]

I believe there's plenty of evidence showing treating COVID-19 early, with hydroxychloroquine/HCQ, ZPak or Doxy and Zinc Sulfate, is an effective way to reduce hospitalization by 95%. Dr Vladimir Zelenko from NY and many other doctors, are using this protocol with their high risk patients, seeing amazing results. However, this treatment doesn't work as well, if at all, with those who are critically ill and hooked up to ventilators, due to the fact that at that point, patients experience the ominous "Cytokine Storm" / extreme inflammation. Other medications and modalities have proven better at treating these patients, like for example, high dose vitamin C administered through an IV and a few other treatments.


We could end this pandemic much sooner, if we all wore our masks when in public, and the HCQ protocol was given to whoever is infected with this virus, early, not when the person walks into the ER, half dead, in critical condition, needing a ventilator.

[carpedm9587]

I believe there's plenty of evidence showing treating COVID-19 early, with hydroxychloroquine/HCQ, ZPak or Doxy and Zinc Sulfate, is an effective way to reduce hospitalization by 95%. Dr Vladimir Zelenko from NY and many other doctors, are using this protocol with their high risk patients, seeing amazing results. However, this treatment doesn't work as well, if at all, with those who are critically ill and hooked up to ventilators, due to the fact that at that point, patients experience the ominous "Cytokine Storm" / extreme inflammation. Other medications and modalities have proven better at treating these patients, like for example, high dose vitamin C administered through an IV and a few other treatments.

We could end this pandemic much sooner, if we all wore our masks when in public, and the HCQ protocol was given to whoever is infected with this virus, early, not when the person walks into the ER, half dead, in critical condition, needing a ventilator.

Can you share this evidence? I found this article abut Zelenko, but have not seen the results of any clinical trials as yet.

[YHWH RULES]

Can you share this evidence? I found this article abut Zelenko, but have not seen the results of any clinical trials as yet.

He is conducting clinical, peered reviewed studies now and there is the French study with Hydroxychloroquine, conducted by Dr. Didier Raoult. In the middle of a pandemic, you're essentially practicing battlefield medicine, hence you use what apparently works. HCQ is a medication that has been used for over 70 years, with very little problems as far as side effects, to treat malaria. It's also used to treat lupus and arthritis, two autoimmune, inflammatory diseases. HCQ is also a powerful ionophore, allowing zinc to enter cells, stopping the replication of the COVID virus. Zinc when it enters a cell through an ionophore, disrupts the replication process of the virus. It throws a wrench in the mechanism, that allows the virus to create copies of itself.

The actual, in the field experience of many doctors who administer this HCQ protocol to their high risk COVID patients, is that it dramatically reduces the mortality rate for such patients, preventing them from developing a serious infection. It cuts hospitalization by 95%, according to Dr Vladimir Zelenko, Dr Raolt, and many other doctors who use this protocol.

Another effective treatment for COVID, is high-dose (20,000mg+ daily), of vitamin C, administered intravenously.

If more Americans had access to the above treatments, we could get rid of this pandemic, much quicker. Unfortunately, politics and big pharma, with its massive propaganda machine, is doing everything possible to prevent Americans from having access to this cheap, safe and effective treatment. Cheap, safe and effective is not a friend of the big pharmaceutical companies, that prefer, expensive, complicated, patentable solutions to disease, they can profit from. There's no profit for them and their cronies, with HCQ or high dose vitamin C.

[mikewhitney]

Why is California being singled out?

I use this as an example of the misuse of massive quarantine where it is proven to be a totally incompentent policy. The hospitals are nearly empty. The promise to flatten the curve has been abused by keeping the hospitals empty. This is repeated in most states, from what I can tell.
I still didn't hear what you find convincing of a lingering pandemic in California and the need to do massive quarantines.

Your evidence for this is...?

The video has experts/doctors in this field who have observed the same things I am talking about. I am not sure how you missed that.
I have not checked recent numbers in California. There may be a surge of something after people go back into the world of the living. This is because people need the continual interaction with other people both for the emotional aspect of enhancing the immune system and for exercising the immune system with germs from other people.
What have you found on this? So far you are just questioning what I have found but have not described what you have found, and where you have found this.

Are you talking about the evidence of censorship?
This is one video talks about the censorship
Video Removed & BBC inferred I lied. My 2 cents. DANA ASHLIE *DELETED FROM YOUTUBE*
https://www.bitchute.com/video/tQ2Qu7n11lE9/

You can search for the Mikovits video which is sometimes named as PLANDEMIC (pt. 1 Judy Mikovits) and find links that show the video was removed.
This link is removed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jjUqzfc-g0
This censorship is aligned with the recommendations and goals discussed in Event 201
PlandemicVideoRemoved.jpg

If censorship of debate and discussion on the virus only happened on youtube, we could think this is just an isolated policy. But the same censorship happens on Facebook and Twitter. There are also techniques in the search engines which push the public policy debates deep into the results.

First, I no longer have any clue what specific arguments you've made. Second, my memory is that you hand-waved away so many responses that I don't really have the desire or energy to do the work to respond to anything you previously posted because history suggests you will hand-wave it away again.

I talk about the excessive quarantines in California ostensibly for flattening the load on hospitals. The hospitals have been nearly empty, which means we should have re-opened the economy sooner. People forget that the flattening of the curve was not for reducing deaths but was to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed. This is either stupidity on the part of most govenors (for not opening up the economy quicker) or was a bait-and-swap tactic where the public is made to accept the quarantine so hospitals are not overwhelmed but now are said that we have to do this until a vaccine is developed. This need for the salvation by a vaccine is without evidence. No one answers why this virus would need a vaccine when other viruses tend to go into the background or totally disappear. Do you have reason to think that a vaccine will be needed for this coronavirus?

I have never made such an argument. Indeed, I put forward the numbers for the U.S. without all of New York State included to show how we still compare badly to the rest of the world. The response? People cherry picked a few countries doing worse than us and claimed it demonstrated we were doing fine. The flawed logic in all of that is mind-boggling.

I am trying to fight flawed logic.

Are you talking about the meaningless count of detected and reported cases of COVID-19 or the number of deaths? No one has revealed why the number of cases has any scientific relevance. The general comparison I look at is the contrast of coronavirus deaths against the yearly (or adjusted monthly) numbers of deaths in each country or locality. These have primarily shown lower deaths due to COVID-19 than happen with the flu -- plus, many cases of influenza-like symptoms have been automatically been designated as COVID-19.

[carpedm9587]

He is conducting clinical, peered reviewed studies now and there is the French study with Hydroxychloroquine, conducted by Dr. Didier Raoult. In the middle of a pandemic, you're essentially practicing battlefield medicine, hence you use what apparently works. HCQ is a medication that has been used for over 70 years, with very little problems as far as side effects, to treat malaria. It's also used to treat lupus and arthritis, two autoimmune, inflammatory diseases. HCQ is also a powerful ionophore, allowing zinc to enter cells, stopping the replication of the COVID virus. Zinc when it enters a cell through an ionophore, disrupts the replication process of the virus. It throws a wrench in the mechanism, that allows the virus to create copies of itself.

The actual, in the field experience of many doctors who administer this HCQ protocol to their high risk COVID patients, is that it dramatically reduces the mortality rate for such patients, preventing them from developing a serious infection. It cuts hospitalization by 95%, according to Dr Vladimir Zelenko, Dr Raolt, and many other doctors who use this protocol.

Another effective treatment for COVID, is high-dose (20,000mg+ daily), of vitamin C, administered intravenously.

If more Americans had access to the above treatments, we could get rid of this pandemic, much quicker. Unfortunately, politics and big pharma, with its massive propaganda machine, is doing everything possible to prevent Americans from having access to this cheap, safe and effective treatment. Cheap, safe and effective is not a friend of the big pharmaceutical companies, that prefer, expensive, complicated, patentable solutions to disease, they can profit from. There's no profit for them and their cronies, with HCQ or high dose vitamin C.

All of this smacks just a little too much of "conspiracy theory" for my tastes, and I still only have your observations and word for any of this. What are your sources? Where have you gathered the information you are putting forward here so I can examine it myself? I have found a few anecdotal things, but nothing of any substance to hang a hat onto.

Sources?

[Cow Poke]

All of this smacks just a little too much of "conspiracy theory" for my tastes...

I find videos that seem entirely credible and well researched, til you see another video exposing the errors in that video, then another video making claims.... It's like we're trying to figure out who shot Kennedy.

[carpedm9587]

I use this as an example of the misuse of massive quarantine where it is proven to be a totally incompentent policy. The hospitals are nearly empty. The promise to flatten the curve has been abused by keeping the hospitals empty. This is repeated in most states, from what I can tell. I still didn't hear what you find convincing of a lingering pandemic in California and the need to do massive quarantines.

I still do not understand your need to single out California. However, California, as best I can tell, is one of the states that has done one of the more effective jobs of "flattening the curve." They rank 34th for infections per million, 20th for deaths per million, and 29th for tests per million. They achieved the first two despite having some of the most densely populated areas of the U.S. (LA, SF, SD, etc.). Social distancing and shutting down of public venues has clearly had a strong effect. We know what this virus does when these things are NOT done.

The video has experts/doctors in this field who have observed the same things I am talking about. I am not sure how you missed that.
I have not checked recent numbers in California. There may be a surge of something after people go back into the world of the living. This is because people need the continual interaction with other people both for the emotional aspect of enhancing the immune system and for exercising the immune system with germs from other people.
What have you found on this? So far you are just questioning what I have found but have not described what you have found, and where you have found this.

Nor am I likely to spend a lot of time doing that again, Mike. I gave you some of that information in the last exchange, and you hand-waved anything/everything that disagreed with your POV and then returned to your mantra. I see no sign of that pattern changing here.

Are you talking about the evidence of censorship?
This is one video talks about the censorship
Video Removed & BBC inferred I lied. My 2 cents. DANA ASHLIE *DELETED FROM YOUTUBE*
https://www.bitchute.com/video/tQ2Qu7n11lE9/

You can search for the Mikovits video which is sometimes named as PLANDEMIC (pt. 1 Judy Mikovits) and find links that show the video was removed.
This link is removed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jjUqzfc-g0
This censorship is aligned with the recommendations and goals discussed in Event 201
[ATTACH=CONFIG]44579[/ATTACH]

If censorship of debate and discussion on the virus only happened on youtube, we could think this is just an isolated policy. But the same censorship happens on Facebook and Twitter. There are also techniques in the search engines which push the public policy debates deep into the results.

I have no basis for thinking there is "censorship" targeted at the debate about the virus, possible cures, etc.

I talk about the excessive quarantines in California ostensibly for flattening the load on hospitals. The hospitals have been nearly empty, which means we should have re-opened the economy sooner. People forget that the flattening of the curve was not for reducing deaths but was to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed. This is either stupidity on the part of most govenors (for not opening up the economy quicker) or was a bait-and-swap tactic where the public is made to accept the quarantine so hospitals are not overwhelmed but now are said that we have to do this until a vaccine is developed. This need for the salvation by a vaccine is without evidence. No one answers why this virus would need a vaccine when other viruses tend to go into the background or totally disappear. Do you have reason to think that a vaccine will be needed for this coronavirus?

You paint a false dichotomy. Flattening the curve is about BOTH reducing hospitalizations (actually - generally reducing the load on healthcare - not just hospitals) and about reducing mortality. Until we have a vaccine, herd immunity will only be achieved by people getting and surviving the virus. However, the morality rate for the virus is significantly higher than the flu and, like the flu, disproportionately impacts the elderly and medically compromised. That also means, for cultural reasons, it disproportionately impacts the poor and minorities. IMO, we should be taking every possible care to protect these communities.

I am trying to fight flawed logic.

You're not succeeding, AFAICT. You seem to be painting any logic that doesn't align with your opinion as "flawed." It's not much of an argument.

Are you talking about the meaningless count of detected and reported cases of COVID-19 or the number of deaths? No one has revealed why the number of cases has any scientific relevance.

Epidemiology 101, Mike - the transmission rate, period of contagiousness, and mortality of a virus are the basic parameters that establish its spread and impact on the population in the absence of countermeasures. Countermeasures then can reduce that number, as they have been doing.

The general comparison I look at is the contrast of coronavirus deaths against the yearly (or adjusted monthly) numbers of deaths in each country or locality. These have primarily shown lower deaths due to COVID-19 than happen with the flu -- plus, many cases of influenza-like symptoms have been automatically been designated as COVID-19.

Then you are blind to the actual data. We have never had a flu season - which is as much as 6 months - in which as many people have died as has happened in the last 6 weeks due to this virus, and that is WITH social distancing being widely implemented. How you can ignore this fundamental fact is beyond me.