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  • Kim Jong-un

    A lot of speculation about what is happening here. I've seen everything from "he's dead" to "he's in a vegetative state" to "he's just recooperating from heart surgery.

    Given the utter failure of Trump's attempts to rein in the North Korean leader, it raises the question of the consequences should Kim die. A power vacuum creates a very unstable environment, and when that environment has nukes and a million-man army, it is pretty concerning.

    Toss in a world distracted by a global pandemic...

    Thoughts?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  • #2
    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    A lot of speculation about what is happening here. I've seen everything from "he's dead" to "he's in a vegetative state" to "he's just recooperating from heart surgery.

    Given the utter failure of Trump's attempts to rein in the North Korean leader, it raises the question of the consequences should Kim die. A power vacuum creates a very unstable environment, and when that environment has nukes and a million-man army, it is pretty concerning.

    Toss in a world distracted by a global pandemic...

    Thoughts?
    Trump actually visited Kim on his own turf (a huge risk) and tried to negotiate. How diplomatic could you get than that (or are you actually auguring from a neoliberal/neoconservative warmongering view here?). He probably couldn't follow through with it because he had the albatross of investigation and impeachment around his neck his whole term. The TDS is strong here, and your bias is making you as less and less credible as Ox. When you've got me defending Trump, you know you're being disingenuous.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'll defer to the ever reliable Bill Palmer.


      Here’s one important thing to consider. These reports of Kim Jong Un being near death make him look weak. In fact these reports make him weak, whether he’s ill or not, because his perceived illness makes him vulnerable to palace intrigue or outside attack. If Kim were able to get in front of a TV camera right now and prove that he’s in good shape, it’s nearly a given that he’d be doing it, if only to send a signal to would-be aggressors. The logical conclusion is that, at the least, he’s in bad enough shape that he can’t fake it in front of a camera. As to whether he’s alive or dead, well, it’ll come out eventually.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seanD View Post
        Trump actually visited Kim on his own turf (a huge risk)
        How so?

        and tried to negotiate.
        Yep, he *tried* :). You want a participation trophy for that weak loser?


        He probably couldn't follow through with it because he had the albatross of investigation and impeachment around his neck his whole term.
        Then he's a fool for not making his place in history in the first two years when impeachment wasn't a concern. The most brilliant mind in business at it again :).


        The TDS is strong here, and your bias is making you as less and less credible as Ox. When you've got me defending Trump, you know you're being disingenuous.
        In what way, perceived or actual, has NK been reined in?

        Comment


        • #5
          Hey Divine, keep breaking up my posts into pieces and I'm not responding. If you respond the way I responded to Carp, then I'll respond to you. I'm not going to play that cheap little kiddy game.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seanD View Post
            Trump actually visited Kim on his own turf (a huge risk) and tried to negotiate. How diplomatic could you get than that (or are you actually auguring from a neoliberal/neoconservative warmongering view here?).
            Actually, I am pointing out that Trump's attempts to negotiate with N.K. were pretty much as non-productive as all previous presidents, none of whom gave N.K. the "honor" of face time with a U.S. president. And I am also underscoring the inconsistency from many on the right who howled in outrage when Mr. Obama suggested he would be willing to talk with any of the leaders of Iran, N.K, and Iraq to try to further relationships. Mr. Trump went beyond that and actually went to them - and from many of the same characters on the right we got "what a marvelous leader!"

            Originally posted by seanD View Post
            He probably couldn't follow through with it because he had the albatross of investigation and impeachment around his neck his whole term.
            OMG Are you seriously going to hang Trump's failures on impeachment? First, the failure was clear long before the impeachment process started. Second, maybe if Trump had not attempted to solicit foreign aid in getting himself re-elected, and then did everything possible to obstruct the subsequent investigation (with the sole exception of releasing the written summary of his call), he wouldn't have been impeached? Just a thought...

            Originally posted by seanD View Post
            The TDS is strong here, and your bias is making you as less and less credible as Ox. When you've got me defending Trump, you know you're being disingenuous.
            There is no question that I have developed a strong bias against Mr. Trump - but it is a bias informed by his words and actions. I freely admit I no longer give him the benefit of the doubt because I have no basis for doing so. We're talking about a man who not only lies regularly, but has publicly bragged about it and has put in writing that he believes lying is an acceptable strategy for getting what you want. So I don't have any basis for believing him when he makes a claim since he is perfectly willing to lie to me if it will gain him my support. If that is TDS, then I indeed have the disease.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
              I'll defer to the ever reliable Bill Palmer.


              Here’s one important thing to consider. These reports of Kim Jong Un being near death make him look weak. In fact these reports make him weak, whether he’s ill or not, because his perceived illness makes him vulnerable to palace intrigue or outside attack. If Kim were able to get in front of a TV camera right now and prove that he’s in good shape, it’s nearly a given that he’d be doing it, if only to send a signal to would-be aggressors. The logical conclusion is that, at the least, he’s in bad enough shape that he can’t fake it in front of a camera. As to whether he’s alive or dead, well, it’ll come out eventually.
              Good points.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                A lot of speculation about what is happening here. I've seen everything from "he's dead" to "he's in a vegetative state" to "he's just recooperating from heart surgery.

                Given the utter failure of Trump's attempts to rein in the North Korean leader, it raises the question of the consequences should Kim die. A power vacuum creates a very unstable environment, and when that environment has nukes and a million-man army, it is pretty concerning.

                Toss in a world distracted by a global pandemic...

                Thoughts?
                Tough to know. I remember when Brezhnev got old and feeble, he had to steady himself constantly by hanging onto people around him, so western observers were guessing how much longer he would live. They guessed it pretty well. One person on Reagan's team guessed he had about two months to live, and he died right about that time.

                There's just no way to know what is going on behind those communist walls of secrecy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  He's probably pretty sick. I understand the event he missed would be similiar to the pope missing his Easter blessing.

                  I've seen articles that are saying if he dies, his sister will take over. I'm not buying it - North Korea strikes me as way too sexist for that. She's gone and probably killed. His kids are too small and I'm not aware of any older male relative to be a regent until they're old enough to rule. They're probably would be killed, too. We could be looking at the end of the Kim dynasty.

                  If he dies, I'll go with someone in the military taking over. Probably see a lot of bluster from whoever but they'll be too busy trying to secure their position to do anything serious in the short term. Long term, we'll see.
                  "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                  "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This calls for prayer for mercy on the people of North Korea!
                    Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Other than paranoid deep hiding from COVID 19 which is in North Korea the fact that he is missing this long something is serious. My guess is a failed surgery, or he has COVID 19.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The news reports keep getting more pronounced. I am reading that he is either dead, or nearly dead with no hope of recovery.

                        We should know for certain in a couple of days.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seanD View Post
                          Hey Divine, keep breaking up my posts into pieces and I'm not responding. If you respond the way I responded to Carp, then I'll respond to you. I'm not going to play that cheap little kiddy game.
                          That's not a "kiddy game", that is the way that reply functions are designed to work on the Internet. I have no idea why you get hung up over that.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            That's not a "kiddy game", that is the way that reply functions are designed to work on the Internet. I have no idea why you get hung up over that.
                            I agree. It gets hard to figure out to which part of someone's post you're referring to if you don't break it up that way. It's asking for misunderstanding to just leave it as one block of text with all your replies to the different parts of their post as one block of text at the bottom.
                            Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              That's not
                              It is.

                              a "kiddy game",
                              I would expect little kids to do this in an online argument with each other, not grown adults having a discussion.

                              that is the way that reply functions are designed to work on the Internet.
                              No it's not. You literally have to meticulously break apart the post (usually out of context) and manually click the quote code around it each time. That isn't how it functions, you have to force it that way manually.

                              I have no idea why you get hung up over that.
                              Because adults don't talk like that in person, so why should adults discuss things this way in a text post?

                              Comment

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