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What "theory" means in science

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  • #46
    Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
    There is no "if" here. It's simply true. I've been following his posts for years, Frank. Trust me on this. He's an evolutionary biologist with an extensive publication record ... who also, by his own account, which I have no reason to distrust ... finds that scientists are far less strict in their usage of the word "theory" than a formal definition would suggest.
    Agreed. This is merely the difference between (ahem) theory and practice. Most scientists don't discuss the meaning of "theory" for the same reason that most civil engineers don't discuss the meaning of "bridge" and most software developers don't discuss the meaning of "programming". They're more interested in doing than philosophising.

    Roy
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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    • #47
      Originally posted by sfs1 View Post
      But there are large areas of science in which I have no first-hand experience. I'm asking for feedback from other scientists who have any relevant information to offer on the subject. For some reason that offends you.
      For what it's worth computer scientists don't talk about "theories" much at all.

      Roy
      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

      Comment


      • #48
        There is a good bit of theory in computer science, though large portions of it is a closely related to other disciplines like mathematics or EE and Physicis. Examples: graph theory, computational systems, algorithm complexity (NP-Hard/Complete etc), networks, language theory, cryptography : or physics/electrical engineering (chip design etc, RF communications etc). Some of it is uniquely compsci, like OS design and principles,compiler/linker design, OO langauage theory and design, testing theory, theories governing run-time and static analysis, or vulnerability analysis and so forth.

        There is even theory associated with program design and maintenance, overall system design. Psychology enters in when it comes to GUI design.

        Plenty of theory in CompSci.

        Jim
        Last edited by oxmixmudd; 04-03-2015, 05:57 PM.
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

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        • #49
          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          There is a good bit of theory in computer science, though large portions of it is a closely related to other disciplines like mathematics or EE and Physicis. Examples: graph theory, computational systems, algorithm complexity (NP-Hard/Complete etc), networks, language theory, cryptography : or physics/electrical engineering (chip design etc, RF communications etc). Some of it is uniquely compsci, like OS design and principles,compiler/linker design, OO langauage theory and design, testing theory, theories governing run-time and static analysis, or vulnerability analysis and so forth.

          There is even theory associated with program design and maintenance, overall system design. Psychology enters in when it comes to GUI design.

          Plenty of theory in CompSci.

          Jim
          Plenty of theory, but not many theories. That's the distinction I was drawing between theory as mass noun and as count noun.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            Your response is reasonable, but no, sfs1's confusing argument is without constructive meaning. Yes, as you note, there is variation and diversity of views of what theory means and how it works. The reality is that hypothesis, theory, and the variations work perfectly well in science within the human limitations over time.

            Also, the definition from the Oxford Dictionary he cited is unnecessarily vague and useless as far as how scientists consider and use 'theory.'

            The following is confusing hogwash.
            You know, I get the feeling that shunyadragon just doesn't like me.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              There is a good bit of theory in computer science, ...
              Yup, loads. But not in the sense shunyadragon is using the word.

              Roy
              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by sfs1 View Post
                Plenty of theory, but not many theories. That's the distinction I was drawing between theory as mass noun and as count noun.
                I've gotta say, you've made an excellent point in this thread. I'm revising my position on this particular stereotypical-talking-point as a result.
                "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by sfs1 View Post
                  Plenty of theory, but not many theories. That's the distinction I was drawing between theory as mass noun and as count noun.
                  You made me look up the difference.
                  Remember that a number can not be used to quantify a mass noun. Incorrect: four woods, one rice, three courages.

                  Right. So this doesn't make sense:

                  Three courages, the courages of bravery, adventure, and recklessness, sent me through the four woods surrounding the kingdom in search of the one rice of replenishment.

                  I get it now.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by sfs1 View Post
                    You know, I get the feeling that shunyadragon just doesn't like me.
                    I am sure for an Irishman like myself you are an upstanding nice fellow, but your argument reeks of nonsense. You would still be thrown out of the pub on your bum for such nonsense.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      I am sure for an Irishman like myself you are an upstanding nice fellow, but your argument reeks of nonsense. You would still be thrown out of the pub on your bum for such nonsense.
                      'Tis pity the scientific community hasn't figured out how full of nonsense I am about science.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by sfs1 View Post
                        'Tis pity the scientific community hasn't figured out how full of nonsense I am about science.
                        I would like to see a good sensible thread that discusses what, why and how science uses the concept of theory. Lao Tzu has described some of the ways this is done and I would like to see more including the implications and how the results we have today are impacted. What are the alternatives?
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment

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