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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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The Omnipresence of God and Creation

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  • The Omnipresence of God and Creation

    Greetings,

    I have a 'simple' question.

    I have a clear memory from when I was a kid, maybe 6~8 age. I was trying to work out in my childlike mind how could God be everywhere at once. Obviously I had an extremely basic concept of omnipresence. I formed the idea that perhaps when God created the universe, including us, He had merely to imagine it, all inside of his head. Because God was so clever, mere figments of his imagination could easily actually exist and experience life, etc.

    Years later, but also years ago, I stumbled upon something on the interwebs which described this concept of all of creation being contained 'inside' God. It was, of course, heretical, or at least non-orthodox, but it also had a name. Does anyone have an idea of what that name might be? (Aside from 'Bonkers')

    Thank you
    Manky

  • #2
    Pantheism - the belief that Creation is part of God. (Hinduism for example)
    Panentheism - the belief that Creation is separate from God (Christianity for example)

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by MankyScotsGit View Post
      Greetings,

      I have a 'simple' question.

      I have a clear memory from when I was a kid, maybe 6~8 age. I was trying to work out in my childlike mind how could God be everywhere at once. Obviously I had an extremely basic concept of omnipresence. I formed the idea that perhaps when God created the universe, including us, He had merely to imagine it, all inside of his head. Because God was so clever, mere figments of his imagination could easily actually exist and experience life, etc.

      Years later, but also years ago, I stumbled upon something on the interwebs which described this concept of all of creation being contained 'inside' God. It was, of course, heretical, or at least non-orthodox, but it also had a name. Does anyone have an idea of what that name might be? (Aside from 'Bonkers')

      Thank you
      Manky
      I'm pretty sure certain versions of panentheism ascribe to this.

      Comment


      • #4
        PS I think Mary Baker Eddy who founded the Christian Scientists believed that we are all just part of God's dream. Sounds like what you were thinking when you were a child.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Cere' & Pirate chappie. I'll go and have a read. Just from a quick glance at panentheism, it certainly does look as if that's where I'll find the concept. Obvs I'll go beyond Wiki

          "Panentheism (meaning "all-in-God", from the Greek πᾶν pân, "all", ἐν en, "in" and Θεός Theós, "God")[1] is the belief that the divine pervades and interpenetrates every part of the universe and also extends beyond space and time." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism

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          • #6
            It sounds like Berkeley's Idealism

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-lDlxVQy4c

            https://www3.nd.edu/~jspeaks/courses...y-idealism.pdf
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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            • #7
              Manky!



              Otherwise I have nothing to add.



              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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              • #8
                Panpsychism ? Transcendentalism, of some kind ? Though panentheism may be what is indicated………

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MankyScotsGit View Post
                  Thanks Cere' & Pirate chappie. I'll go and have a read. Just from a quick glance at panentheism, it certainly does look as if that's where I'll find the concept. Obvs I'll go beyond Wiki

                  "Panentheism (meaning "all-in-God", from the Greek πᾶν pân, "all", ἐν en, "in" and Θεός Theós, "God")[1] is the belief that the divine pervades and interpenetrates every part of the universe and also extends beyond space and time." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism
                  Panentheism means that God is omnipresent in creation but not identical to it. Creation is separate from God. This is what Christians believe. Pantheism means that creation is a part of God, or is God itself.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MankyScotsGit View Post
                    Greetings,

                    I have a 'simple' question.

                    I have a clear memory from when I was a kid, maybe 6~8 age. I was trying to work out in my childlike mind how could God be everywhere at once. Obviously I had an extremely basic concept of omnipresence. I formed the idea that perhaps when God created the universe, including us, He had merely to imagine it, all inside of his head. Because God was so clever, mere figments of his imagination could easily actually exist and experience life, etc.

                    Years later, but also years ago, I stumbled upon something on the interwebs which described this concept of all of creation being contained 'inside' God. It was, of course, heretical, or at least non-orthodox, but it also had a name. Does anyone have an idea of what that name might be? (Aside from 'Bonkers')

                    Thank you
                    Manky
                    I remember having a similar thought when I was about 16 (so you're much smarter than me) - what if reality was no more than a dream God was having? God being God, His dreams could be as real as reality, if you see what I mean. They could create a real universe, etc

                    The main problem I see with the idea is that it anthropomorphises God too much - God's basically a really powerful (and cool) human, who has dreams (and thus is asleep, etc). I don't believe God dreams (i.e. has altered levels of consciousness at different times) because that would be an imperfection (there are times God's mind isn't fully and perfectly aware).


                    What it does get right as an idea is that God is powerful beyond measure.
                    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      Panentheism means that God is omnipresent in creation but not identical to it. Creation is separate from God. This is what Christians believe. Pantheism means that creation is a part of God, or is God itself.
                      The latter makes no sense, since being part of god is being god itself and that just boils down to being the universe but giving it the title of god. And the former isn't much better, because it would be wrong to say that god is everywhere in the universe, it would be the universe is everywhere in god which takes us back to pantheism.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        The latter makes no sense, since being part of god is being god itself and that just boils down to being the universe but giving it the title of god. And the former isn't much better, because it would be wrong to say that god is everywhere in the universe, it would be the universe is everywhere in god which takes us back to pantheism.
                        uh no.

                        Panentheism (at least the Christian version) says that God is everywhere in his creation, but is not his creation. He is omnipresent. I am in my office right now, but I am not my office.

                        Pantheism says that the universe is just a part of God, or is just God itself. As if you were part of God, and so is my desk, and office. Like cells in a body.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          uh no.

                          Panentheism (at least the Christian version) says that God is everywhere in his creation, but is not his creation. He is omnipresent. I am in my office right now, but I am not my office.

                          Pantheism says that the universe is just a part of God, or is just God itself. As if you were part of God, and so is my desk, and office. Like cells in a body.
                          But being in a box which is empty inside is not the same idea as being in a box that is solid throughout. To be in that kind of box would make you part of the box itself, just like pantheism.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            But being in a box which is empty inside is not the same idea as being in a box that is solid throughout. To be in that kind of box would make you part of the box itself, just like pantheism.
                            Ok this is probably a dumb analogy, but you have billions of bacteria inside your body. But they are not part of your body.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Ok this is probably a dumb analogy, but you have billions of bacteria inside your body. But they are not part of your body.
                              And if you exist outside of the box, then you can't be said to exist inside the box. In other words, if as it is claimed that god exists outside of space time, then he can't also be said to exist within space time. If god is omnipresent then he would have to exist both inside and outside of the box, i.e. inside and outside of space time.

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