DOJ drops all charges against Michael Flynn!

[DivineOb]

Is this that thing you do where you pretend to be stupid and hope your opponent will trip himself up trying to explain it to you? Or perhaps you're not pretending. Either way, this isn't complicated:

1) Intelligence agencies arranged for Papadopolous to be given a large sum of cash that they expected him to naively bring with him into the US.
2) The plan was for this cash to be "discovered" as part of the normal customs screening process because this is done without a warrant. They didn't care if he had only a portion of the cash with him, because that would have still made it plausible enough to sit him down under a hot light and squeeze a "confession" out of him. But it was necessary they "discover" physical evidence on his person or in his luggage in order for the scheme to work.
3) It turns out that Papadopolous isn't an idiot and left the cash with a lawyer friend in Greece.
4) The FBI screwed up and arrested him before they realized there was no incriminating evidence to be "discovered". How do you explain that to a judge? "But, your honor, we only arrested him because we expected him to have the evidence we planted! It's not our fault he outsmarted us!"

So in the end, the FBI had to scramble to cover up their busted sting, and so Papadopolous was slapped with a nothing-burger "lying to investigators" charge and served something like 10-days in jail (although considering how hot his wife is, 10-days away from her could be considered cruel and unusual punishment).

So if he just deposited his money in the bank then this whole scheme would have blown up *and* P would have gotten to keep the $10K?

And why would that require *marked* money?

[Mountain Man]

So if he just deposited his money in the bank then this whole scheme would have blown up *and* P would have gotten to keep the $10K?

And why would that require *marked* money?

Right... because the FBI wouldn't have been monitoring his bank account.

[DivineOb]

Right... because the FBI wouldn't have been monitoring his bank account.

What you said was this

2) The plan was for this cash to be "discovered" as part of the normal customs screening process because this is done without a warrant.

Wouldn't depositing the money into his bank account defeat the plan then?

Why would this plan require "marked" money?

Why do you think the FBI would have access to his bank account without a search warrant (or whatever sort of court order you'd need)?

[JimL]

Is this that thing you do where you pretend to be stupid and hope your opponent will trip himself up trying to explain it to you? Or perhaps you're not pretending. Either way, this isn't complicated:

1) Intelligence agencies arranged for Papadopolous to be given a large sum of cash that they expected him to naively bring with him into the US.
2) The plan was for this cash to be "discovered" as part of the normal customs screening process because this is done without a warrant. They didn't care if he had only a portion of the cash with him, because that would have still made it plausible enough to sit him down under a hot light and squeeze a "confession" out of him. But it was necessary they "discover" physical evidence on his person or in his luggage in order for the scheme to work.
3) It turns out that Papadopolous isn't an idiot and left the cash with a lawyer friend in Greece.
4) The FBI screwed up and arrested him before they realized there was no incriminating evidence to be "discovered". How do you explain that to a judge? "But, your honor, we only arrested him because we expected him to have the evidence we planted! It's not our fault he outsmarted us!"

So in the end, the FBI had to scramble to cover up their busted sting, and so Papadopolous was slapped with a nothing-burger "lying to investigators" charge and served something like 10-days in jail (although considering how hot his wife is, 10-days away from her could be considered cruel and unusual punishment).

I'm not at all familiar with the details of this probable fabrication, MM, so tell me. You said the FBI arranged for papadopolous to be given $10,000. Who did they arrange that with, who gave him the money and for what purpose? If Papadopolous was to smart for them, why did he take the money? The FBI arrested him for lying and obstruction of Justice, so why would they need to come up with this entrapment scheme, when they already had sufficient reason to arrest him?

[rogue06]

Rogue,

If UKR was a total fabrication why did Romney vote to convict? Just because he felt like throwing his career away? Remember he's got his eyes on another run for the presidency and will have to explain his vote time and again if he does so.

Romney despises Trump almost as much as McCain did. He has been seething after Trump mocked him as a loser following the 2012 election.


But to turn this around you had Democrats voting to acquit. In your strange little world this means Trump was therefore innocent because after all they certainly don't want to throw their careers away.

As for Romney's presidential aspirations... Jimmy McMillan also has the same dream and about the same chances.

[DivineOb]

Romney despises Trump almost as much as McCain did. He has been seething after Trump mocked him as a loser following the 2012 election.

But he surely wants to be president *more* than he hates Trump. I'm sure he dislikes a lot of his colleagues.

But to turn this around you had Democrats voting to acquit. In your strange little world this means Trump was therefore innocent because after all they certainly don't want to throw their careers away.

Name *one* Democrat who voted to acquit. I'll wait.

As our greatest President once said "Please proceed, governor."

[rogue06]

But he surely wants to be president *more* than he hates Trump. I'm sure he dislikes a lot of his colleagues.





Name *one* Democrat who voted to acquit. I'll wait.

As our greatest President once said "Please proceed, governor."

Perhaps I should have said voted against impeachment rather than acquit. And those would be Collin Peterson (D-Minn.) and Jeff Van Drew (D-N.J.).


As for Romney... he understands that currently he has about as much a chance of receiving the Republican presidential nomination as Hillary does. None.

His only chance would be to bank on Republicans turning on Trump like they did Nixon and he wants to position himself as a leader of that movement if by chance it ever would happen. Then he could wear his impeachment vote like a badge of honor.


ETA: And McCain hated Trump more than he hated Obamacare which he constantly railed against but then was the deciding vote to not repeal it just so he could spite Trump.

[Mountain Man]

What you said was this

2) The plan was for this cash to be "discovered" as part of the normal customs screening process because this is done without a warrant.

Wouldn't depositing the money into his bank account defeat the plan then?

Why would this plan require "marked" money?

Why do you think the FBI would have access to his bank account without a search warrant (or whatever sort of court order you'd need)?

Is it even possible to transfer a large sum of money into a US bank account from outside the country without it alerting someone? In which case they would have known, and that would have given them the grounds to arrest him. Since they knew the money hadn't been electronically transferred from out of the country, they expected him to bring it physically with him. Obviously the one contingency they hadn't planned for was him playing it smart and simply leaving the cash in another country.

[Mountain Man]

As for Romney... he understands that currently he has about as much a chance of receiving the Republican presidential nomination as Hillary does. None.

As I've heard it said, if Romney had fought Obama and the Democrats as hard as he's fought Trump, he would be in the final year of his second presidential term right now.

[DivineOb]

Is it even possible to transfer a large sum of money into a US bank account from outside the country without it alerting someone?

Not if he deposited the full $10k at once. But if he deposited $9K and then spent $1K during his vacation it would be fine. For all I know he and his wife have separate bank accounts where he could have separately deposited $5k into each.

Possibly the rules are a little different from a foreign bank (you'd have to ask someone who knows more than me on this) but it's not like this isn't a trivial issue to get around. You're saying if he decided to just spend the $10K on his trip then the sting would be thwarted? Is that really how smart you think the FBI *is*? Even if you think they are *corrupt* they certainly aren't *stupid*!

And why would *any* of this require *marked* money? You still refuse to answer that.

In which case they would have known, and that would have given them the grounds to arrest him.

This is false. You can't arrest someone for depositing money into their account. Just the IRS wants to know so they can get their cut.

Since they knew the money hadn't been electronically transferred from out of the country, they expected him to bring it physically with him. Obviously the one contingency they hadn't planned for was him playing it smart and simply leaving the cash in another country.

You're ignoring the fact that they wouldn't have had a basis to question him if he came back with less than $10K cash.

This whole thing is just so silly, MM. Surely you can see that this story doesn't make any sense.

Why would the money have to be *marked* for any of this to matter? The FBI already knows the serial numbers!

If he's getting paid the $10K for a legitimate business arrangement then why wouldn't he deposit it in the bank and then report the money on his taxes as he's required to do!? That also makes no sense. I didn't even think of that until just now. This story is so threadbare it might as well be Trump's new robes.

[Cow Poke]

Not if he deposited the full $10k at once. But if he deposited $9K and then spent $1K during his vacation it would be fine. For all I know he and his wife have separate bank accounts where he could have separately deposited $5k into each....

Just for clarity, the "$10,000 Rule" is part of the Bank Secrecy Act, and is often misunderstood...

It's actually involving...

• Is over $10,000
• Received as:

• A lump some over $10k
• Two or more related payments in excess of 10K (combined)
• Payments received as part of a single transaction (or two or more related transactions) that exceed 10K in a 12-month period.

• Received in the course of trade or business
• From the same person (payer)
• Received in a single transaction or two or more related transactions.

And reportable when related to....

• The sale of goods, services, real estate or intangible property (stocks, bonds etc)
• Rental of goods, real property and personal property
• Cash exchanged for other cash (like money laundering / foreign money exchange)
• When creating or maintaining a trust or escrow account (i.e. putting $10k in to a living trust for your kids)
• A loan repayment
• Conversion of cash to a negotiable instrument (i.e. a check or a bond)

[DivineOb]

Perhaps I should have said voted against impeachment rather than acquit. And those would be Collin Peterson (D-Minn.) and Jeff Van Drew (D-N.J.).

Mhmmm.. And it's not the least bit challenging to figure out why they might have done so for reasons connected to their own political futures which have nothing to do with the strength of the impeachment charges.

As for Romney... he understands that currently he has about as much a chance of receiving the Republican presidential nomination as Hillary does. None.

Romney gave his reasons -- the main one being his deep personal religious faith (which I have no reason to doubt) convicted his conscience. If you are going to claim he was lying then you had better have something to back that accusation up with.

I agree that if Trump wins by any margin then it is unlikely that Romney gets the nomination in 2024. On the other hand, if the Republicans get totally wiped out, a very real possibility, a "return to normalcy" candidate (a la Biden) has a real chance to reaching what remains of the Republican party. Surely you agree that if Trump loses in 2020 the odds that one of his kids ends up with the nom in 2024 shrinks drastically.

His only chance would be to bank on Republicans turning on Trump like they did Nixon and he wants to position himself as a leader of that movement if by chance it ever would happen. Then he could wear his impeachment vote like a badge of honor.

Right, so we agree that he has more of a chance than Clinton does :).

ETA: And McCain hated Trump more than he hated Obamacare which he constantly railed against but then was the deciding vote to not repeal it just so he could spite Trump.

McCain gave his reasons for voting that bill down

What bothered McCain more, though, was his party’s strategy to pass their so-called skinny repeal measure, skipping committee consideration and delivering it straight to the floor. They also rejected any input from the opposing party, a tactic for which he had slammed Democrats when the ACA passed in 2010 without a single GOP vote. He lamented that Republican leaders had cast aside compromise-nurturing Senate procedures in pursuit of political victory.

Why do you disagree with this sentiment which he expressed *prior* to the vote taking place? Don't you remember the 11th hour meetings and pleadings he had to try to restore "normal order" prior to that vote?

[JimL]

Is it even possible to transfer a large sum of money into a US bank account from outside the country without it alerting someone? In which case they would have known, and that would have given them the grounds to arrest him. Since they knew the money hadn't been electronically transferred from out of the country, they expected him to bring it physically with him. Obviously the one contingency they hadn't planned for was him playing it smart and simply leaving the cash in another country.

MM, who are you saying it was that gave Papadopolous the money, and what was it supposedly for? What did Papadopolous think he was receiving the money for? And if as you say, Papadoolous was to smart for the FBI, so he left the money there with his lawyer, if he was so smart that he knew it was a set-up, and so left the money there, then why did he take the money in the first place?.

[Mountain Man]

Just for clarity, the "$10,000 Rule" is part of the Bank Secrecy Act, and is often misunderstood...

It's actually involving...

• Is over $10,000
• Received as:

• A lump some over $10k
• Two or more related payments in excess of 10K (combined)
• Payments received as part of a single transaction (or two or more related transactions) that exceed 10K in a 12-month period.

• Received in the course of trade or business
• From the same person (payer)
• Received in a single transaction or two or more related transactions.

And reportable when related to....

• The sale of goods, services, real estate or intangible property (stocks, bonds etc)
• Rental of goods, real property and personal property
• Cash exchanged for other cash (like money laundering / foreign money exchange)
• When creating or maintaining a trust or escrow account (i.e. putting $10k in to a living trust for your kids)
• A loan repayment
• Conversion of cash to a negotiable instrument (i.e. a check or a bond)

Yep, and what a coincidence that Papadopolous was given a sum just large to violate the law if he had brought it into the country.

[DivineOb]

Yep, and what a coincidence that Papadopolous was given a sum just large to violate the law if he had brought it into the country.

Thanks for replying so I can bring up a point I forgot. How ridiculous is it that, in order to trick him, they gave him *exactly* $10K! That's really what you'd do? Give him just enough so that if he decided to tip his taxi driver $20 the whole scheme is blown?

What an idiotic plan!

And why would any of this require *marked* money?