DOJ drops all charges against Michael Flynn!

[JimL]

The witch hunt started by Comey and Peter Strzok was started under false pretenses. That is illegal. The probe, beginning in August 2016 when Flynn was a foreign policy adviser to then-candidate Trump, centered on paid speaking engagements Flynn had in Russia, which were public knowledge at the time, just like the speaking engagements given by Bill Clinton.

You don't even know what you're talking about, Bill. The FBI was monitoring Kislyak, not Flynn, and in so doing they recognized that Kislyaks communications were with Flynn and that he was potentially undermining U.S. policy and then lied to both the FBI as well, so Pence says, to Pence, which made him a national security risk susceptible to blackmail by the Russians The Obama Administration was then advised of the risk Flynn posed to national security and admonished Comey to proceed "by the book' without any direction from Obama himself, and to let him know if anything changes and if he should need to withhold from Flynn classiified information.

[Bill the Cat]

In due humility, I think you are wrong on this. My understanding is that you can freely listen to the non-American half of phone calls. Additional legal firepower is necessary to listen to the American half. Is that not your understanding?

You can't listen to half a phone call. Once it was established that an American citizen who was not under FISA investigation was involved, it should have been dropped and deleted. Americans are guaranteed privacy if they are not under investigation. The NSA wiretapping scandal proved that to a T.

Boob or no (I think he had more than one) this sounds like a very straightforward violation of the law. Is Flynn's current lawyer claiming that the phone calls were illegally collected?

Yes, I believe that is part of it.

[DivineOb]

You can't listen to half a phone call. Once it was established that an American citizen who was not under FISA investigation was involved, it should have been dropped and deleted. Americans are guaranteed privacy if they are not under investigation. The NSA wiretapping scandal proved that to a T.

You're just wrong about this, sorry. And are you really saying that it is technologically impossible to listen to just half of a phone call? You guys rarely make me laugh so give yourself a pat on the back.

Yes, I believe that is part of it.

Since I doubt you are going to actually point me to something which substantiates this...

[Bill the Cat]

You don't even know what you're talking about, Bill. The FBI was monitoring Kislyak, not Flynn, and in so doing they recognized that Kislyaks communications were with Flynn and that he was potentially undermining U.S. policy

False.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...32c_story.html

The FBI in late December reviewed intercepts of communications between the Russian ambassador to the United States and retired Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn — national security adviser to then-President-elect Trump — but has not found any evidence of wrongdoing or illicit ties to the Russian government, U.S. officials said.

and then lied to both the FBI as well, so Pence says, to Pence, which made him a national security risk susceptible to blackmail by the Russians The Obama Administration was then advised of the risk Flynn posed to national security and admonished Comey to proceed "by the book' without any direction from Obama himself, and to let him know if anything changes and if he should need to withhold from Flynn classiified information.

Riiiight… Page and Strzok were blatant liars. Flynn posed no threat.

[JimL]

You can't listen to half a phone call. Once it was established that an American citizen who was not under FISA investigation was involved, it should have been dropped and deleted. Americans are guaranteed privacy if they are not under investigation. The NSA wiretapping scandal proved that to a T.

Says who? where are you getting the idea that U.S Intel can not listen in on communications between Foriegn entities and American citizens. Why do you think they have the masking and unmasking rules in order to keep the identities of innocent parties under wraps?

]Yes, I believe that is part of it.

It may be their position, I don't know, but of course it is not illegal to listen in on communications with foriegn entities. Again, where are you gettingthis from?

[JimL]

False.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...32c_story.html

The FBI in late December reviewed intercepts of communications between the Russian ambassador to the United States and retired Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn — national security adviser to then-President-elect Trump — but has not found any evidence of wrongdoing or illicit ties to the Russian government, U.S. officials said.

That's not the question. You said it was illegal to eavesdrop on the call. Whether they found anything illegal or not being said on the call is a different question.

[Riiiight… Page and Strzok were blatant liars. Flynn posed no threat.

Blatant liars about what. Flynn became a national security risk once he publicly lied to Pence about his communications with Kislyak.

[Bill the Cat]

You're just wrong about this, sorry. And are you really saying that it is technologically impossible to listen to just half of a phone call? You guys rarely make me laugh so give yourself a pat on the back.

You have no clue how surveillance works, do you? Flynn was under a baseless CI investigation in August when these intercepts happened in December, so saying it was just Kislyak that was under surveillance and that only his half was recorded is false. And Obama was intimately familiar with the phone calls' content before telling Comey in January 2017 to do it "by the book". The FBI possessed word-for-word transcripts of Flynn's December 2016 conversations with Kislyak, and publicly admitted to reviewing those transcripts and clearing Flynn of any wrongdoing.

Since I doubt you are going to actually point me to something which substantiates this...

After re-reading the Motion to Dismiss, with an eye looking at the phone calls themselves, no, they are not relying on the phone calls at all, since the FBI already cleared them of anything suspicious.

[Bill the Cat]

That's not the question. You said it was illegal to eavesdrop on the call. Whether they found anything illegal or not being said on the call is a different question.

It is illegal to eavesdrop on an American citizen. FISA makes that clear. They have a loophole when that citizen is talking to someone overseas. The FISA investigation into Flynn came first. That was illegal. The FBI already cleared Flynn on the content of the conversations, so much so that they were 1 day away from dropping the investigation. Page and Strzok lied to keep it open and hoodwinked Flynn into an interrogation with NO transcripts. Then they got him to cop to lying over imprecise language. He's been trying to get his plea tossed ever since based on the FISA investigation being illegally obtained.

Blatant liars about what. Flynn became a national security risk once he publicly lied to Pence about his communications with Kislyak.

So, you'll have no problem explaining the origin of the FISA request 6 months earlier...

[JimL]

It is illegal to eavesdrop on an American citizen. FISA makes that clear. They have a loophole when that citizen is talking to someone overseas. The FISA investigation into Flynn came first. That was illegal. The FBI already cleared Flynn on the content of the conversations, so much so that they were 1 day away from dropping the investigation. Page and Strzok lied to keep it open and hoodwinked Flynn into an interrogation with NO transcripts. Then they got him to cop to lying over imprecise language. He's been trying to get his plea tossed ever since based on the FISA investigation being illegally obtained.[

It's not a loophole. They weren't investigating Flynn, and the Fisa investigation wasn't into Flynn. And no, the FBI did not clear Flynn of anything, they considered closing the case, until it became clear to them that Flynn had also lied to Pence about Russian communications making him a National security risk. The rest of the above is just stupid. Nobody hoodwinked him into lying, and the Fisa investigation into Russia was not illegal. You're right wing talking heads are filling your own with gobbldygook.

So, you'll have no problem explaining the origin of the FISA request 6 months earlier...

No, I have no problem because the Fisa request was to investigate the Russia connections and anyone, including Flynn, who may be found to be involved. If the Russian investigation, in which Flynn got caught up in with his communications with Kislyak in early January 2017, had anything to do with the lawyers allegations, then why is that not the reason his lawyers are claiming in thier effort to get the case dismissed? They are simply claiming that the FBI/Flynn interview was an ambush, and outrageous behavior on the part of the FBI., not alleging that the Russian investigation in which he got caught up in was illegal.

[Bill the Cat]

It's not a loophole.

Yes it is. Everyone in the IC, which I am actually a member of, knows it is a loophole. Privacy advocates have long been complaining that it gives an excuse to eavesdrop on American citizens.

They weren't investigating Flynn, and the Fisa investigation wasn't into Flynn.

Ignorance.

https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf

The FBI assembled a Headquarters-based investigative team of special agents, analysts, and supervisory special agents (referred to throughout this report as "the Crossfire Hurricane team") who conducted an initial analysis of links between Trump campaign members and Russia. Based upon this analysis, the Crossfire Hurricane team opened individual cases in August 2016 on four U.S. persons Papadopoulos, Carter Page, Paul Manafort, and Michael Flynn -all of whom were affiliated with the Trump campaign at the time the cases were opened.

And no, the FBI did not clear Flynn of anything,

They admitted that there was nothing in the phone calls.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...32c_story.html

they considered closing the case, until it became clear to them that Flynn had also lied to Pence about Russian communications making him a National security risk.

Oh, you mean "What's our goal? Truth/Admission or to get him to lie, so we can prosecute him or get him fired?"

The rest of the above is just stupid.

No, YOU'RE stupid.

Nobody hoodwinked him into lying,

Oh, you mean planting an investigator into Trump's IC briefing without telling Trump that members of his team were under investigation?

and the Fisa investigation into Russia was not illegal.

The inclusion of Flynn for the specious reasons listed was illegal, and will probably get his conviction overturned.

You're right wing talking heads are filling your own with gobbldygook.

Oh please. You're disgustingly so far left, your car doesn't even have a right turn signal. Asshat.

No, I have no problem because the Fisa request was to investigate the Russia connections and anyone, including Flynn, who may be found to be involved. If the Russian investigation, in which Flynn got caught up in with his communications with Kislyak in early January 2017, had anything to do with the lawyers allegations, then why is that not the reason his lawyers are claiming in thier effort to get the case dismissed? They are simply claiming that the FBI/Flynn interview was an ambush, and outrageous behavior on the part of the FBI., not alleging that the Russian investigation in which he got caught up in was illegal.

They are claiming that his inclusion was not legal, that the reason for including him was beyond flimsy, and that he was ambushed at the WH where no record of the interrogation was kept. Try and keep up.

[Mountain Man]

Here we go...

A three panel DC Appeals Court Panel, Judge Henderson, Judge Wilkins and Judge Rao have ordered Michael Flynn’s Judge, Emett Sullivan, to respond to the defense petition for a writ of mandamus within ten days.

Quoting the U.S. vs Fokker ruling the panel is not responding directly to the Flynn petition with an immediate decision; instead they are requiring Judge Sullivan to explain his decision to engage with extra-party amicus actions despite the DOJ and Flynn defense agreement on the motion to dismiss.

The order can be viewed as a smart move by the appeals panel because Judge Sullivan has yet to rule on the original unopposed DOJ motion. In essence, Sullivan has never explained himself; and this approach will require Sullivan to put his proverbial cards on the table. The DC panel has given Judge Sullivan ten days to respond.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...ithin-10-days/

It will be interesting to see what Sullivan does.

[Cow Poke]

Here we go...

A three panel DC Appeals Court Panel, Judge Henderson, Judge Wilkins and Judge Rao have ordered Michael Flynn’s Judge, Emett Sullivan, to respond to the defense petition for a writ of mandamus within ten days.

Quoting the U.S. vs Fokker ruling the panel is not responding directly to the Flynn petition with an immediate decision; instead they are requiring Judge Sullivan to explain his decision to engage with extra-party amicus actions despite the DOJ and Flynn defense agreement on the motion to dismiss.

The order can be viewed as a smart move by the appeals panel because Judge Sullivan has yet to rule on the original unopposed DOJ motion. In essence, Sullivan has never explained himself; and this approach will require Sullivan to put his proverbial cards on the table. The DC panel has given Judge Sullivan ten days to respond.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...ithin-10-days/

It will be interesting to see what Sullivan does.

The writ of mandamus [Latin - "we demand"] basically demands compliance with the law and proper procedures in jurisprudence.

[JimL]

Yes it is. Everyone in the IC, which I am actually a member of, knows it is a loophole. Privacy advocates have long been complaining that it gives an excuse to eavesdrop on American citizens.



Ignorance.

https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf

The FBI assembled a Headquarters-based investigative team of special agents, analysts, and supervisory special agents (referred to throughout this report as "the Crossfire Hurricane team") who conducted an initial analysis of links between Trump campaign members and Russia. Based upon this analysis, the Crossfire Hurricane team opened individual cases in August 2016 on four U.S. persons Papadopoulos, Carter Page, Paul Manafort, and Michael Flynn -all of whom were affiliated with the Trump campaign at the time the cases were opened.



They admitted that there was nothing in the phone calls.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...32c_story.html



Oh, you mean "What's our goal? Truth/Admission or to get him to lie, so we can prosecute him or get him fired?"



No, YOU'RE stupid.



Oh, you mean planting an investigator into Trump's IC briefing without telling Trump that members of his team were under investigation?



The inclusion of Flynn for the specious reasons listed was illegal, and will probably get his conviction overturned.



Oh please. You're disgustingly so far left, your car doesn't even have a right turn signal. Asshat.




They are claiming that his inclusion was not legal, that the reason for including him was beyond flimsy, and that he was ambushed at the WH where no record of the interrogation was kept. Try and keep up.

Apparently you are correct with respect to the FISA warrent, but the problems with that warrent had to do with Carter page in that the FBI left out pertinent information when applying for the warrent. I see no problems indicated with respect to Flynn. They all had ties, business interest, or connections to Russians connected to Putin. That's why the 4 of them were subjects of the investigation, the predicate being those connections in relation to the investigation. But the case for dismissal of charges in the Flynn case has nothing to do with that.

[Mountain Man]

Apparently you are correct with respect to the FISA warrent, but the problems with that warrent had to do with Carter page in that the FBI left out pertinent information when applying for the warrent. I see no problems indicated with respect to Flynn. They all had ties, business interest, or connections to Russians connected to Putin. That's why the 4 of them were subjects of the investigation, the predicate being those connections in relation to the investigation. But the case for dismissal of charges in the Flynn case has nothing to do with that.

Funny you would mention this considering the story I just read. It was actually Papadopolous who was the original target, and with a FISA two-hop warrant in its pocket, the FBI was effectively allowed to spy on the entire Trump campaign. Only the case against Papadopolous was bogus from the start, and the FBI knew it.

Judicial Watch announced today that it received the “electronic communication” (EC) that officially launched the counterintelligence investigation, termed “Crossfire Hurricane,” of President Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign. The document, which was written by former FBI official Peter Strzok and was obtained as the result of a Judicial Watch FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) lawsuit against the FBI and DOJ for: “The Electronic Communication that initiated the counterintelligence investigation of President Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign.” (Judicial Watch v. U.S. Department of Justice (No. 1:19-cv-02743)).

The redacted document details seeming third hand information that the Russian government “had been seeking prominent members of the Donald Trump campaign in which to engage to prepare for potential post-election relations should Trump be elected U.S. President.” The document also alleges Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos, claimed to an unnamed party that “they (the Russians) could assist the Trump campaign with the anonymous release of information during the campaign that would be damaging to Hillary Clinton.”

The document notes, “It was unclear whether he [Papadopoulos] or the Russians were referring to material acquired publicly of [sic] through other means. It was unclear how Mr. Trump’s team reacted to the offer. We note the Trump team’s reaction could, in the end, have little bearing of what Russia decides to do, with or without Mr. Trump’s cooperation.”

[...]

“No wonder the DOJ and FBI resisted the public release of this infamous ‘electronic communication’ that ‘opened’ Crossfire Hurricane – it shows there was no serious basis for the Obama administration to launch an unprecedented spy operation on the Trump campaign,” stated Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “We now have more proof that Crossfire Hurricane was a scam, based on absurd gossip and innuendo. This document is Exhibit A to Obamagate, the worst corruption scandal in American history. This document shows how Attorney General Barr and U.S. Attorney Durham are right to question the predicate this spy operation.”

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...-spyoperation/

[DivineOb]

Funny you would mention this considering the story I just read. It was actually Papadopolous who was the original target, and with a FISA two-hop warrant in its pocket, the FBI was effectively allowed to spy on the entire Trump campaign. Only the case against Papadopolous was bogus from the start, and the FBI knew it.

Judicial Watch announced today that it received the “electronic communication” (EC) that officially launched the counterintelligence investigation, termed “Crossfire Hurricane,” of President Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign. The document, which was written by former FBI official Peter Strzok and was obtained as the result of a Judicial Watch FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) lawsuit against the FBI and DOJ for: “The Electronic Communication that initiated the counterintelligence investigation of President Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign.” (Judicial Watch v. U.S. Department of Justice (No. 1:19-cv-02743)).

The redacted document details seeming third hand information that the Russian government “had been seeking prominent members of the Donald Trump campaign in which to engage to prepare for potential post-election relations should Trump be elected U.S. President.” The document also alleges Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos, claimed to an unnamed party that “they (the Russians) could assist the Trump campaign with the anonymous release of information during the campaign that would be damaging to Hillary Clinton.”

The document notes, “It was unclear whether he [Papadopoulos] or the Russians were referring to material acquired publicly of [sic] through other means. It was unclear how Mr. Trump’s team reacted to the offer. We note the Trump team’s reaction could, in the end, have little bearing of what Russia decides to do, with or without Mr. Trump’s cooperation.”

[...]

“No wonder the DOJ and FBI resisted the public release of this infamous ‘electronic communication’ that ‘opened’ Crossfire Hurricane – it shows there was no serious basis for the Obama administration to launch an unprecedented spy operation on the Trump campaign,” stated Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “We now have more proof that Crossfire Hurricane was a scam, based on absurd gossip and innuendo. This document is Exhibit A to Obamagate, the worst corruption scandal in American history. This document shows how Attorney General Barr and U.S. Attorney Durham are right to question the predicate this spy operation.”

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...-spyoperation/

Papi got drunk and blabbed about the whole thing to the Australian ambassador to the UK. That's what got the ball rolling.