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Thread: Fiscal Responsibility is Dead

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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Fiscal Responsibility is Dead

    This bill, from the Democrats, is a travesty. $3T more borrowed from our grandchildren and their children to make things more comfortable for us in a time of struggle. I hope there are enough politicians to stand against this kind of waste and for a return to fiscal responsibility - but I suspect there are not. In a time of crisis, in a culture of entitlement, this has about as much chance of failing completely as the so-called "Patriot Act" did at a time when we were attacked.

    There are times when I wonder when/if common sense will ever return to this country.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    This bill, from the Democrats, is a travesty. $3T more borrowed from our grandchildren and their children to make things more comfortable for us in a time of struggle. I hope there are enough politicians to stand against this kind of waste and for a return to fiscal responsibility - but I suspect there are not. In a time of crisis, in a culture of entitlement, this has about as much chance of failing completely as the so-called "Patriot Act" did at a time when we were attacked.

    There are times when I wonder when/if common sense will ever return to this country.
    Than we need to end statewide lockdowns and begin to rebuild our destroyed economy.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  3. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    I am very critical of people and governments who run up huge amounts of debt. HOWEVER, the two times I do agree with debt-based-spending are #1 to get through a major war (e.g. WWII), #2 in a time of crisis to help out the people directly.

    This appears to be #2, and thus, to me, at face value, appears justified.

    This is a time of crisis, it's not a run-of-the-mill time, so it's far more okay for balancing the budget to not happen properly, whereas normally I would indeed have something to say about fools mortgaging their grand-kids future. And, unlike the Trump/bipartisan bailout at the start of this crisis, where money was nearly all given to big businesses who didn't need it, this proposal appears to be primarily focused on the people who need it.

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    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    $3T more borrowed
    Why are you assuming Dems want to borrow that money, as opposed to funding this proposal through raised taxes?

    In general, Dems do typically want to raise taxes to pay for things they want to spend. Accusations against them of fiscal irresponsibility seem unjustified.

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    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Why are you assuming Dems want to borrow that money, as opposed to funding this proposal through raised taxes?

    In general, Dems do typically want to raise taxes to pay for things they want to spend. Accusations against them of fiscal irresponsibility seem unjustified.
    “They are going to take more of your money, to hand it back to you. It makes perfect sense, if you don’t think about it!”
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  7. Amen Mountain Man, Sparko, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Than we need to end statewide lockdowns and begin to rebuild our destroyed economy.
    No. We need to follow the science and relax stay-at-home orders as it becomes safe to do so. There are other ways to deal with the poor and in need besides massive bailouts for business or the economy.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Why are you assuming Dems want to borrow that money, as opposed to funding this proposal through raised taxes?

    In general, Dems do typically want to raise taxes to pay for things they want to spend. Accusations against them of fiscal irresponsibility seem unjustified.
    I've seen no proposal for tax changes in any of the reports I've seen about this bill. Have you seen something I've missed?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    I am very critical of people and governments who run up huge amounts of debt. HOWEVER, the two times I do agree with debt-based-spending are #1 to get through a major war (e.g. WWII), #2 in a time of crisis to help out the people directly.

    This appears to be #2, and thus, to me, at face value, appears justified.

    This is a time of crisis, it's not a run-of-the-mill time, so it's far more okay for balancing the budget to not happen properly, whereas normally I would indeed have something to say about fools mortgaging their grand-kids future. And, unlike the Trump/bipartisan bailout at the start of this crisis, where money was nearly all given to big businesses who didn't need it, this proposal appears to be primarily focused on the people who need it.
    Generally, I would agree, if there was a plan to pay for the cost in a reasonable period of time - usually with tax increases.

    What doesn't help is that this new debt is coming on top of an already $1T deficit that was incurred during a supposedly healthy economy. Fiscal irresponsibility in Washington has become rampant and is one of the few things that appears to be bipartisan - ironically enough.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    No. We need to follow the science and relax stay-at-home orders as it becomes safe to do so. There are other ways to deal with the poor and in need besides massive bailouts for business or the economy.
    So government spending bills, it is!
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    “They are going to take more of your money, to hand it back to you. It makes perfect sense, if you don’t think about it!”
    I believe the idea would be "they are going to give you the money now and pay for it with your taxes later." In a crisis or time of war, as Star points out," such compromises are common and make sense. What is missing, AFAICT, is the tax part of this. Instead, it seems to just pile on debt with no plan to recoup the funds in a reasonable near term.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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